The world's most liveable cities—Toronto #15, Vancouver #4

[Archivist]

Whoaccio, the Toronto Star's not-so-long ago article showed quite definitively that while in 1970 most Torontonians fit into a middle income bracket, since 1970 the majority of census tracts have gone two ways: in a large number of neighbourhoods income brackets have increased by 20% or more, and in a large number of neighbourhoods it has decreased by 20% or more. See this map.

Many studies have shown that for all intents and purposes, household income has stagnated or decreased for the vast majority in Canada since 1970, and this is with extra income earners. I've seen these statistics from so many places and in so many books that they are simply not in dispute.

The causes of this, the effects on our society, are another issue and are open to dispute. But your comments about whether or not it is happening are simply uninformed.

 

[Whoaccio]

My point wasn't that there isn't growing income inequality, just that its impact on the municipal discourse is minimal. Going through the list of issues, most of them are characterized less by discussion between the have/havenots but rather between self styles progessives and 'middle classers.' Take for example the the WalMart proposal near Leslieville. Rich yuppies just used it to advance 'social justice' issues (fair trade! stop corporate greed! stop WalMart!) then framed it as some kind of issue with the corporate elite screwing the working class. It was actually just upper middle class busismen from Vaughan trying to compete with upper middle class businessmen from Riverdale.

The main cause of income inequality in Toronto is on one hand the continued movement of middle class families to the 905 and on the other hand the declining economic opportunities for poorer immigrants. The actual time City Council or the media spends discussing these issues is next to nothing compared to identity issues like NIMBYisms against unfavorable condo projects or romanticized transit discussions about how LRTs are really a matter of social justice. Personally, I can't imagine the poor Tamil family in Malvern cares one way or another wether Jarvis is four lanes or 50 when he has to spend a few hours a day commuting to Markham for work in a warehouse because Toronto's job creation is absolutely awful.

So I would be less inclined to believe that Toronto is characterized by a class gulf. The major issues which we time and time address are really more of a culture gulf. A culture war between people who think that backyards are the pinnacle of human greatness and those who think bicycles with panniers are more practical than a car. The actual poor don't really count.

 

[OttoSchloss]

I think we can safely say that Cannes is still the top film festival in the world, with Toronto being second, which is quite something to brag in itself.

Cannes has lost most of its cache over the years -it has history and gets the most press but isn't a real pleasure for film goers. I would put Venice, Cannes and Toronto all tops. There really doesn't have to be a number one.

 

[Hipster Duck]

So I would be less inclined to believe that Toronto is characterized by a class gulf. The major issues which we time and time address are really more of a culture gulf.

For the record, my post wasn't about a widening class gulf, it was about how interesting world cities tend to become jaded places with unresponsive municipal governments and a flagging sense of civic pride.

Or, maybe it's the flip side: cities that are more functional tend to be smaller places that self-select for one type of person which makes them easier to run, but bland at best, and closed-minded at worst. That's another problem with city rankings: they tend to identify the best city from the narrow POV of one demographic, generally middle-aged Caucasian (whether that's Western European or American) professionals.

 

[Whoaccio]

For the record, my post wasn't about a widening class gulf, it was about how interesting world cities tend to become jaded places with unresponsive municipal governments and a flagging sense of civic pride.

They become jaded because governance is politicized on issues that have nothing to do with (this kind of) governance. Rather than deal with municipal issues, which are usually quite small in the grand scheme, big city governments try to take on much bigger roles than they are really equipped or even legitimate to deal with. The quintessential Toronto example is the hand gun ban. Ignoring the questionable effects it would have on crime, City Hall has no authority on the issue anyways. How can anyone take Toronto seriously if most of the issues it discusses are beyond its control? Its sort of like University Student Unions. They have no real authority or expertise in governance, yet feel inclined to issue missives on everything from Israel-Palestine to how blood registries should be run.

I suspect if Toronto, or anyone else, stooped dealing with issues on such an ideological basis the electorate would become less jaded. If, instead of symbolic drive through bans, someone proposed a congestion charge debate would be more open and fruitful.

 

[Hipster Duck]

^Pandering to token, ineffectual gestures in an attempt to look progressive is certainly a David Miller problem, but I'm not sure it's universally applicable to big, world cities.

What I think frustrates people and disengages them from the political process in larger cities is that municipal government doesn't do jack for them unless they belong to a large business interest or a powerful public sector union. To take transit planning as an example, transit lines are built, seemingly, as a means to stimulate real estate development and retain union manufacturing jobs.

 

[bleeepbluuup]

So I would be less inclined to believe that Toronto is characterized by a class gulf. The major issues which we time and time address are really more of a culture gulf. A culture war between people who think that backyards are the pinnacle of human greatness and those who think bicycles with panniers are more practical than a car. The actual poor don't really count.

It may be that only the more well-off are better able to organize and communicate their concerns. The actual poor don't have a voice, because they don't have the time/energy/connections to draw upon to mount any sort of protest. Or maybe they just don't know how to go about it, or realize that they can do such a thing.

For instance, my family immigrated here from Indonesia, where the way to get anything done was to bribe everybody. Even for stupid everyday things like renewing a drivers licence--any interaction with bureaucracy is subject to it. If you don't have cash, you are at the mercy of the whims of the clerk you happen to deal with that day. Maybe things are better there now, I don't know, but people in my family are still not at all inclined to look to government for solutions, or even think that their input would be considered.

But if you are an upper-middle class businessman in Toronto, you're more likely to have the sense of entitlement to approach city hall, the savvy to work the system to get what you want from it, and the time/money to spend working on it. If you're a poor immigrant, these ways may not be apparent, accessible or even navigable. So maybe that's why you never hear from them, and why the public discourse is always between Yuppies from Here and Yuppies from There.

 

[lordmandeep]

For instance, my family immigrated here from Indonesia, where the way to get anything done was to bribe everybody. Even for stupid everyday things like renewing a drivers licence--any interaction with bureaucracy is subject to it. If you don't have cash, you are at the mercy of the whims of the clerk you happen to deal with that day. Maybe things are better there now, I don't know, but people in my family are still not at all inclined to look to government for solutions, or even think that their input would be considered.

well as we heard from Scarface, "once you get the money, you get the power"
Thing is for a Canadian you can be an average Joe here and go there and be a king!!! However its to hot there...

some immigrants really fear the police and the government a lot. My Grandmother sees a police officer and she turns white and she perhaps the most innocent women I Know...

But if you are an upper-middle class businessman in Toronto, you're more likely to have the sense of entitlement to approach city hall, the savvy to work the system to get what you want from it, and the time/money to spend working on it.

I have joined up with a business venture with my Uncle and my dad and the number of loopholes and ways you can scam the system are endless.
An idiot can operate a profitable business and still show a loss to the taxman. I am quite shocked the Canadian govt has not tried to end all this...

 

[tangoplus]

Hmm interesting that Torontro and Montreal is rated so closely...

 

[TrickyRicky]

My ideas on the subject of the maturing city, established interests and opportunity are still not too well developed, but I am fascinated by this subject area. I would like to think of the subject however more in terms of opportunity than income or socio-economic disparity. How possible is it to translate an idea or dream into reality? Does the place incubate this behaviour or squelch it? This is not an issue of money (although money is important) it is about human endeavour. In theory a truly free mind does not need to rely on place to unlock it's potential and find purpose and success in human achievements in life. But it takes a lot for an individual to reach this level of freedom, a level most people are not even aware of, let alone capable of achieving. Think about the life cycle of a human for a moment and what a patchwork of virtually impossible occurances mesh together to form its reality. Place has a great deal to do with how this unfolds. This might all sound a little out there but I think ultimately it is far more important than measurable quantities like how late bars open or the number of km of transit line.