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The Met + Encore at The Met (Edilcan, 43 + 33s, P+S) COMPLETE

When the best thing that can be said about a development is that an integral part of it can't - thankfully - be seen from certain angles, that speaks to the design quality of the development as a whole.

I like the artwork on the roof though.
 
I agree with CanadianNational. The buildings are a nice addition to the streetscape, and I do find the curves to be very sexy. There is so much 'boxiness' (not that there's anything wrong with boxiness) on the Toronto skyline that these buildings are refreshing...

The Met towers also have that tiresome and predictable easy-sell curvy thing going for them - it gets the usual Pavlovian response whenever it's trotted out.

US, where is this surfeit of curvey highrises in Toronto that makes the Met towers so predictable? Everywhere I look I see boxes, and variations thereof.
 
And what makes curves so 'tiresome' as opposed to any other shape? Should the curve in the AGO visor be another box?
 
In a city of boxes, curves are a predictably easy sell - as the reaction to curved buildings, wherever they crop up in our threads, usually shows. Comments made on this thread are a good example of that, if you check back. Tewder, for instance, has twice talked about "sexy curves" in the past two days - here and on the Victoria Street Project thread. Big, curvy condo towers are to UT members what Pamela Anderson ( or updated version ) is to the Red Blooded Male - the response is wholly predictable.
 
Well three cheers, then. Bring on the curves! God forbid we give some people what they want.

US, why characterize a fondness for curves as a human failing practically?

(Otherwise you're right about everything else when I also concur which is often enough.)

42
 
I haven't said it is a human failing, merely that it's an easy novelty trick that works just about every time within the context of a city with a squarish street grid that's full of boxy buildings. But in their creation they're an easy fallback, and perhaps a sign of design lazyness - and hence "tiresome".

In the great bag of visual design trickery ( colours! shapes! textures! ) there are all kinds of such rabbits to pull out of hats. Some, like curves, are an easy sell while others - like unadorned wall space - are the devil to slip past a consumer culture terrified of negative space and emptiness.
 
So that is why great buildings like the Parthenon, the Paris Opera House and the great cathedrals of Florence don't have blank walls: they were built (and adored) by consumer cultures terrified of negative space.
 
Oh, US, we've been here before, and you never, ever explain how curves are a novelty item, while straight lines are not. Toronto is not, never has been, a city of boxes. Everywhere I look there are glorious curves on buildings from every era - I've made that point several times before.

Could you not say, just for once, "I just don't like curves, they do not appeal to me", and stop trying to make your own prejudices into an aesthetic rule. It would be more honest, and you would attract less hostility in that regard. It's when you shove that stuff down the rest of us that we take umbrage, and I do.
 
alklay: All of your examples are pre-Modern. The Paris Opera House was most definitely a consumer culture object, and the architect was renowned for catering to the over-the-top fashion of the time for ostentatious, applied decoration in that more-is-more age. The Parthenon frieze was one ( gaudily-painted, apparently ) decorative element on an otherwise rather severe civic building, put there for the benefit of the general population - so in that sense the applied decoration was a consumer object. Florence built its grandly decorated cathederal to outdo Siena and Pisa, but there is unadorned space there too.

There's nothing wrong with admitting that arranging shapes in space is a form of emotional manipulation, just as movies, theatre, music and the visual arts are.

Archivist: I adore curves. Curves are morally neutral. They should be seen in the context of the responses they generate, that's all.
 
So any building built to appeal to the general population (and all buildings should at least strive for that) are the result of 'consumer cultures'? I can buy into that argument. Bring on buildings that appeal to people.

And if you can find me some significant amount of "unadorned space" on the Basilica di Santa Maria del Fiore, point it out.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/157/380038638_3a0aa3b32b.jpg
 
US - I won't bite until you address your own terminology of "an easy novelty trick". You must defend your original, often stated words, not not simply the argument around.
 
The control freak in all of us may want to deny that we're being manipulated by the placement of objects in space in order to obtain an emotional reaction, but that's what design and the arts are all about. In a city like Toronto, full of buildings created from right-angles, the occasional use of curves in some of them is an example of that.

The Parthenon, the Cathederal, and the Paris Opera House are all 3D logos for their respective owners - designed for consumers of culture, religion, and civic order.
 
I haven't said it is a human failing, merely that it's an easy novelty trick that works just about every time within the context of a city with a squarish street grid that's full of boxy buildings. But in their creation they're an easy fallback, and perhaps a sign of design lazyness - and hence "tiresome".

In the great bag of visual design trickery ( colours! shapes! textures! ) there are all kinds of such rabbits to pull out of hats. Some, like curves, are an easy sell while others - like unadorned wall space - are the devil to slip past a consumer culture terrified of negative space and emptiness.

Many of the cityplace buildings have curves, I dont see everyone rejoicing over them. The Met has curves, is black, and looks pretty sharp. Its not all about curves.
 
The argument about the aesthetic and functionalist viability of modernism must rest primarily within the the history of modernism itself, and its own battles with competing agendas within its own history. It was not only the more rigid Bauhaus school that defined canonical modern architecture. It was an international movement across Europe, based heavily, initially, in socialistic politics, expressionist and universalist-mystic thinking. The functionalist programme it came to be defined by later, was initially a production of architectural artists, who married new technologies to emergent social ideologies. Mies VanDerRohe, for example, had no problem designing for the Nazi's, so sure was he of the transcendent functionalism of his work. Le Corbusier - had no trouble building for the Soviet, multiple curves, brutality and all.
Initally, dogmatic modernism claimed no particular aesthetic, seeing reliance on appearances and refinement as bourgeouis- wasteful, priviliged, elitist.

With the flight of the European Avant-Garde to the United States, Miesian/Bauhaus aesthetics became pre-eminent as Modernist models to emulate - partly because the rectinilear forms and unadorned structure of the buildings suited the heavily industrialized - and industrially intact -United States. They suited the instinct to linear mechanization that had become socially omnipresent during the previous two decades, and celebrated it.
This modernism, however, had nothing to do with social values and was assimilated into being part of the marketing machine. Thus it has been ever since. Even as "The World Of Tomorrow!" has become the World Of Today, and art, architecture and fashion co-manipulate each other onward into new forms and expressions and applications, electronically, across the globe.

Urban Shocker's posts often show a heavily calculated slightness of accumulated tricks that add up to a series of frustratingly lightweight, though lengthy, erroneous ledgers of particulate judgement. To rail against curves in modernist buildings is, frankly, embarassing. To endorse personal preferences for certain aesthetic models that have long passed their raison d'etre, is to be speciously, snobbishly blind to the vast emergent and exisiting possibilites that are constantly being created - and yes, marketed - within this mechanized, globalist-capitalist culture in which were are participating. The artist and the machine necessarily merged long ago, in architecture, and the both are more than well-tooled enough to socially produce what is wanted, required, needed and even envisioned.

Pleasure may be predictable, but it is never as predictable as astringent, nitpicking misery. In a city as immured in base functionality as Toronto, I'll take all the pleasure I can get, and happily, there is plenty.
 
Am I the only one wondering why Urban Shocker remains permitted to hijack every thread for use as his own personal soapbox? It's pedantic, pretentious, and way off-topic, and yet it's tolerated by the moderators. Why?
 

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