Subway To Mississauga: Routing

[drum118]

Quite honestly, if anyone believes that BLOOR can't support a subway, then Dundas or Burnhamthorpe are dead in the water as well. ANY Mississauga east-west subway MUST divert trips from Bloor, Dundas, Rathburn AND Burnhamthorpe. There isn't enough ridership on ANY of those lines to justify a subway in and of themselves. You're deluding yourselves if you think Dundas ridership alone justifies anything more than BRT or LRT. No. For a subway, you're going to have to cannibalize ridership from every east-west line. That's what routes like Hurontario, Dixie, Cawthra and Tomken are for.

People go on and on and on about what a great job the TTC does with all its buses funneling to the Bloor-Danforth subway which add to its ridership. "Feeder buses". Do you think any subway in Mississauga would live without feeder buses? Even a Dundas line would need feeder buses. Bloor, as I stated before, has the advantage of being IN-BETWEEN two busy buses, 26 Burnhamthorpe and 1 Dundas. I doubt a route like Dundas has many walk-in riders. And even those would rather take a subway along Bloor than a bus on Dundas.

The vast majority of Mississaugans don't live on Dundas street, so they'd be getting there by other means. Bloor is closer to Square One. Dundas would require dipping too far to the south. Bloor is more direct. I admit Dundas would be my second choice. But if you're taking into considerating all of Mississauga, then Bloor would be better. There's a lot more of us Northeners these days then there were before. And a subway that reaches MCC faster is better for us.

""PLEASE"" Ride routes to see what on them first and compare them to other to see if this is a good choice or not. Looking at map and Google doesn't tell the whole story.

I use #3 as my route into/from Toronto and can you Bloor will never happen based on what there now or 30 years down the road. I do data collection and only a few stops pickup more than 2 riders. This past Sunday it was mostly 1 rider per stop with only 15 getting off at the Subway. 45 riders used this route in total and that not subway numbers.

Burhamthorpe is Choice 2 after Dundas. There are next to no place to put in new condo's or apartments on Bloor in Mississauga or Toronto without NIMBY getting on the band wagon to stop it. There has been a few proposal to put in townhouses and the city shot them down based on the NIMBY groups.

 

[Dan416]

""PLEASE"" Ride routes to see what on them first and compare them to other to see if this is a good choice or not. Looking at map and Google doesn't tell the whole story.

I use #3 as my route into/from Toronto and can you Bloor will never happen based on what there now or 30 years down the road. I do data collection and only a few stops pickup more than 2 riders. This past Sunday it was mostly 1 rider per stop with only 15 getting off at the Subway. 45 riders used this route in total and that not subway numbers.

Burhamthorpe is Choice 2 after Dundas. There are next to no place to put in new condo's or apartments on Bloor in Mississauga or Toronto without NIMBY getting on the band wagon to stop it. There has been a few proposal to put in townhouses and the city shot them down based on the NIMBY groups.

You clearly didn't read a single thing I wrote did you?

And if you think #1 choice is Dundas and #2 is Burnhamthorpe, wouldn't it be logical to choose an alignment that served both, i.e. Bloor?

But no, never mind, you're not going to read what I just wrote anyway.

 

[Anth]

I use #3 as my route into/from Toronto and can you Bloor will never happen based on what there now or 30 years down the road.

As a fellow 3 rider, the funny thing is that Bloor looks like it hasn't even changed in the last 30 years. It's like a time warp back into the 70s and I love it precisely for that.

 

[doady]

For connection into Toronto all that's needed is a direct line via the Mississauga Transitway corridor to the Georgetown corridor. Much faster and cheaper than an underground diversion of the Milton line that would screw up the connection to Cooksville, or an extension of a very slow subway line that would not serve the main part of downtown Toronto anyways.

Build the Hurontario and Dundas LRT/subway lines, because local transit lines should not only serve local transit needs, but also promote intensification and mixed-uses (very important), which a Bloor-Danforth subway extension along Bloor or Burnhamthorpe to Square One would not do very well. Both Bloor and Burnhamthorpe have very poor redevelopment potential, and Dundas is already busier anyways.

 

[drum118]

You clearly didn't read a single thing I wrote did you?

And if you think #1 choice is Dundas and #2 is Burnhamthorpe, wouldn't it be logical to choose an alignment that served both, i.e. Bloor?

But no, never mind, you're not going to read what I just wrote anyway.

I read it and it too far to walk to if you can in the first place. Some nice barriers north of Dundas stopping north-south connection.

Look at the area around 500 m stops and see what it will be like trying to do what you want.

Why would you run a line where there is next to no density now or in the future to support a line??

Take a weekend, but better still, some week days, since service is a lot better to see what is on those streets as well look at how the riders use those 3 routes. You will change your view.

 

[Dan416]

I still don't agree with you. I've ridden all the routes before. I've lived in Mississauga my whole life.

Nevermind the fact that a subway extension into Mississauga would be serving the entire city. We shouldn't be looking at ridership on 1, 3, or 26 individually. We should be looking at the whole city.

 

[Amphibius]

I still don't agree with you. I've ridden all the routes before. I've lived in Mississauga my whole life.

Nevermind the fact that a subway extension into Mississauga would be serving the entire city. We shouldn't be looking at ridership on 1, 3, or 26 individually. We should be looking at the whole city.

Okay then, we'll totally neglect the obvious:

• 1/1C Dundas, 201 Express= 18,236
• 26 Burnhamthrope, 76(206) Square One-Subway= 14,057
• 3 Bloor= 8,186

Urban planners taking the whole City of Mississauga into account would never under any circumstances advocate for a Bloor Street-Mississauga Valley alignment. Bloor justs pools in its own ridership base, which in of itself is poor considering the route's length. With Bloor we lose potential riders from Alderwood, Dun-Dix, Applewood Acres, Cooksville, and virtually all of the southwest quadrant. Very few from Dundas southwards will commute north to such a subway once the express LRT is built.

These customers are far better off remaining on the Dundas LRT than to risk laywaiting infrequent N-S feeder routes in order to connect with Bloor. They'll just stay on-board til Etobicoke sacrificing whatever marginal speed advantage could be (if 12 new stops x 2-3 min intervals is considered fast?) for directness of service. Even B'thrope riders aren't very likely to interchange within eastern 'Sauga when the transfer points at Hurontario & Square One would be so more convenient for switching modes.

From Six-Points westwards it is Dundas Street that officiates as the major E-W intra/interregional artery; an area primed for redevelopment/urban infill, and any new subway should be built at least partially to reflect that status.

 

[jks]

I just realized something. That glassed off platform that was supposed to be for the Etobicoke RT, at Kipling station, it's the perfect place to start the Dundas LRT. It would just go across the parking lot onto Dundas, and there we go.
Plus, since the platform is extremely long, the Kipling LRT could go out the east end.

 

[khris]

I just realized something. That glassed off platform that was supposed to be for the Etobicoke RT, at Kipling station, it's the perfect place to start the Dundas LRT. It would just go across the parking lot onto Dundas, and there we go.
Plus, since the platform is extremely long, the Kipling LRT could go out the east end.

In the plans for Kipling station's re-development, they are leaving areas for future Dundas LRT connections.

 

[GTS]

With all the federal funding for Transit here in the GTA it would be nice if the Peel regions politicians lobbied the feds for funding for transit for this neglected region as well. The Peel region has over a million people, that is a lot of tax revenue for the feds, province and municipality as well. It would be nice to see some of this out going tax revenue come back for some serious investment in transit in this region. When I first moved here to Toronto a few years ago from Vancouver (with a short stop in a smaller city with an average transit system) I attended a city hall TTC public meeting and a councillor made a deputation that I always remember that makes sense to me. He proposed extending the Bloor line west to Sherway Gardens as that would serve both Toronto and Mississauga's transit systems well. I have always hoped that the politicians in both Toronto and the Peel region would lobby for funding as hard as the politicians in Vaughn did for their own subway extension.

 

[Automation Gallery]

With all the federal funding for Transit here in the GTA it would be nice if the Peel regions politicians lobbied the feds for funding for transit for this neglected region as well. The Peel region has over a million people, that is a lot of tax revenue for the feds, province and municipality as well. It would be nice to see some of this out going tax revenue come back for some serious investment in transit in this region. When I first moved here to Toronto a few years ago from Vancouver (with a short stop in a smaller city with an average transit system) I attended a city hall TTC public meeting and a councillor made a deputation that I always remember that makes sense to me. He proposed extending the Bloor line west to Sherway Gardens as that would serve both Toronto and Mississauga's transit systems well. I have always hoped that the politicians in both Toronto and the Peel region would lobby for funding as hard as the politicians in Vaughn did for their own subway extension.

Your absolutely right, Toronto Mississauga and even Hamilton should all work toghether, instead of bickering with one another, Yeah... to many politicians with big egos, and it will probably never happen in our lifetime.

 

[doady]

A extension to Sherway would not benefit MT much at all. The optimal location for a terminal is at East Mall. All the routes that serve the subway now would connect at East Mall, with the exception of routes 20, 26, 76, which should still connect at Islington, and route 3 which should connect at Kipling. Rerouting any of them all the way to Sherway would inconvenience riders a lot.

 

[Amphibius]

Wouldn't a Sherway Gardens extension include a stop at the East Mall anyway?

 

[Dan416]

Probably. As for whether a Bloor extension services Sherway or not, it's really up to the TTC. The TTC has always planned it as such. But then, they always planned a longer Sheppard line. So you can't really rely on them for anything.

And Peel is too busy in-fighting to lobby for anything. Who even knows how much longer Peel will survive, with Mississauga constantly looking for a way out.

Mississauga under McCallion doesn't really have a vision as a transit city. Maybe under Carolyn Parrish we'd do better.

 

[doady]

Wouldn't a Sherway Gardens extension include a stop at the East Mall anyway?

And an extension does not have to go to Sherway. Isn't that obvious???

There is no reason for Mississauga to lobby for any subway extension to Sherway. In fact, it is in Mississauga's best interest for an extension that bypasses Sherway.