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Spadina Subway Extension

Article

City, York agree on subway funding
Sep. 15, 2006. 12:59 PM
PAUL MOLONEY
STAFF REPORTER

The City of Toronto and Region of York have reached a tentative agreement on sharing the costs of building the Spadina subway extension to York University and then north to the Vaughan Corporate Centre near Highway 7 and Jane St.

The province of Ontario had earlier pledged to pay one third of the $2.1 billion project, while calling on the federal government to contribute a third and giving the municipalities until Sept. 30 to work out their contributions.

Negotiations during the summer resulted in Toronto agreeing to pay 59.96 per cent of the municipalities’ one-third share, with York Region paying 40.04 per cent.

The proposed line is 8.6 kilometres long, which includes 6.1 kilometres in Toronto, running from Downsview station to Steeles Ave. The line would then continue 2.5 kilometres into the city of Vaughan.

The pact to fund the first cross-border transit project in the GTA is to go to York regional council Sept. 21 and to Toronto city council Sept. 25.

Assuming the two municipalities agree, the pressure would then be on the federal government to come up with its one-third share.

The historic agreement is a departure from squabbling that has marked relations between Toronto and York Region in the past.

“We decided to ride off into the sunset, arm in arm,†Councillor Howard Moscoe, chair of the Toronto Transit Commission, said today.

“We came to the conclusion that basically a 60-40 split was appropriate,†said York Region chair Bill Fisch.

“Hopefully, both councils will agree it’s appropriate and we’ll have an agreement in place by Sept. 30.â
 
The problem is the York bit will probably cost 40% to build and 40% of incremental running cost but what percentage of fares will it bring in?
 
There's no way that the Vaughan portion of the line will cost 40% of the total cost, since it's only 29% of the total length and it's built through less challenging terrain.

The most important thing is that it doesn't matter at all to Toronto or the TTC how many riders take the line north of Steeles. The service will almost certainly operate on a contract basis much like the TTC-operated bus routes that extend into York Region. The Region will pay the TTC's operating costs, so any losses based on lack of ridership will be borne by them. Any riders that do take the route from York Region will also improve the TTC's cost recovery on the portion of the line south of Steeles. It's a big win-win for Toronto.
 
Maybe if federal funding for this comes through, then it'll loosen up some more money for subway expansion.

I wish Mississauga was more like York and demanded a subway expansion to Mississauga City Centre. Though I imagine that'd be more expensive than the Vaughan Corporate Centre extension.
 
An expansion to MCC and would likely draw more riders than Vaughan and be nice but more frequent GO service (ie. the lectrification and subway like frequencies on the Lakeshore West line) would accomplish more and would benefit more people across the GTA. I doubt the electrification will happen any time soon but hopefully by 2020 the subway frequencies will have become a reality on at least Lakeshore West and Milton, if not the entire system. I doubt a subway expansion would happen under Hazel as a subway in Sauga would just be a complete money hole and a properly designed LRT would probably accomplish more for the same amount of money (hopefully Scarborough will be a leader in this in the coming decades)
 
But the thing is CPR won't allow any more trains on the Milton line, so subway like frequencies on it won't happen for the foreseeable future. They can only add more riders by using 12-car trains, which they've been lengthening platforms to do.
Sure an electrified GO system would be great, but I think most people would choose subway over that. It just seems more practical (though I don't know which IS more practical. Hell, the extension to VCC isn't "practical" due to likely low ridership, but they're doing that).
 
"An expansion to MCC and would likely draw more riders than Vaughan and be nice but more frequent GO service (ie. the lectrification and subway like frequencies on the Lakeshore West line) would accomplish more and would benefit more people across the GTA."

There may never be enough people travelling between MCC and downtown Toronto to justify a subway extension relative to the benefits of comparatively cheap - and much faster - GO train improvements, but if southern Etobicoke and Mississauga both intensify enough, an extension past Kipling could be both useful and well-used for travelling around random places.

This is a perfect reason why the next $1-2 billion in big windfall transit funding should all go to GO to see what they can do. Then the TTC, MT, YRT, etc., can fill in some of the gaps and focus on moving hordes of people over smaller distances...widescale suburban subway expansion may not be needed after this.
 
Province Considers Tax Scheme to Fund Spadina Subway

Province eyes tax scheme to pay for Spadina subway

MURRAY CAMPBELL

TORONTO -- The Ontario government is considering financing the proposed extension of the Spadina subway line with an innovative measure that captures future rises in property taxes.

Public Infrastructure Renewal Minister David Caplan said yesterday that his government remains hopeful that the federal government will participate in the $2.1-billion Toronto Transit Commission expansion to York University and into neighbouring Vaughan. The three governments have committed almost $1.4-billion to the project, but Ottawa has not yet offered to make up the difference.

Asked what would happen if Ottawa declined to participate, Mr. Caplan suggested that the Ontario government, together with the city of Toronto and Vaughan, would consider other ways to keep the extension on track.

"We're looking at many innovative ways," the Infrastructure Minister said. He singled out tax-increment financing, under which a calculation is made about the rise in property-tax assessments from a project and a 25-year bond issued on the basis of this projected value.

The issue of the federal government's commitment to the Spadina extension surfaced again last week when Finance Minister Jim Flaherty met his Ontario counterpart, Greg Sorbara. Asked by reporters about the project, Mr. Flaherty said it had "certain pluses and minuses" and added: "It's obviously very expensive and there is only so much money available."

The federal Finance Minister made similar comments last August when he said "there isn't any firm money on the table" and that his Conservative government was in the middle of a broadly based consultation on infrastructure.

Mr. Sorbara said yesterday that he is willing to give Mr. Flaherty time for that process and that "my own view is that when those consultations are complete, the federal government will be participating. This project is just too important to turn your back on."

The Ontario government will introduce legislation this fall to allow tax-increment financing to assist with redevelopment of Toronto's waterfront and to allow Toronto and Vaughan to use the measure to finance their share of the subway extension.
 
What about all the other transit projects that have put on hold thanks to the Conservative government? The Ontario government must fund other ways to fund all transit projects since the Conservatives will never fund projects in ridings where they have little chance of getting a seat, which is bascially all of the GTA.
 
funding for the spadina extension should be yanked and diverted to those other projects. i don't know why anyone would extend the spadina line when the yonge line needs it so much more. the yonge subway should be extended to steeles. and spadina should go to york or steeles, but no further.
 
i don't know why anyone would extend the spadina line when the yonge line needs it so much more. the yonge subway should be extended to steeles.
Click to expand...
The TTC has actually explained in great detail exactly why the Spadina line has priority over expansion and why expanding the Yonge line at this time is a lost cause.

Simply put, expanding the Yonge line would not allow it to carry more passengers. It's already at capacity. They predicted that an expansion would cause people from York Mills south to be stuck waiting on the platform.

Yonge line expansion will come after Spadina and the new signaling system are put into place. It will likely be coupled with another Bloor station rebuild. Termination points (Downsview and Finch stations), signaling system, and Bloor station are the choke points that keep train frequency where it is.
 
I actually applaud the Ont Liberals for still trying to go ahead with the line, even without the feds. Its very easy to sit back and say that they did their part and blame the Feds while nothing gets done. Since they already have $1.4 billion, why not just build it to York U, and blame the Feds for not extending it into 905. Which would be true. It would also hurt the conservatives in the 905 area, where they need it the most.

Is is just me or is the PC party in general against transit in the GTA? Peterson, Rae, and now McGuinty seem to be somewhat onboard. But Harris, and now the Feds???
 
roch.

I think the provincial government will stop at nothing to have the shovels in the ground for the subway before next Fall's election. Very good news if you live in Vaughan.
 
"It's obviously very expensive and there is only so much money available."
Click to expand...

This is just weeks after last year's surplus of $13 billion was used for debt repayment. They have plenty of money if they want it.
 
This is just weeks after last year's surplus of $13 billion was used for debt repayment. They have plenty of money if they want it.
Click to expand...

It really is the equivalent of telling a homeless person that you have no change when thousand dollar bills are falling out of your pocket.
 
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