mdrejhon
Senior Member
Ahhhh, the old debate over electricity, diesel, and Hydro One...
A related topic is electrical grid efficiency. Ontario's power grid and electric generation mix isn't exactly a poster child at the moment -- for example, there is a pro-wind-power website is anti-ontario-wind (www.windontario.ca) -- due to grid inefficiencies such as shutting down nuclear power when the wind companies insist on generating too much power (with their profitable contracts), and sometimes having to pay someone else (e.g. U.S.) to take power. We have poor peaking infill capacity (e.g. gas peakers or electrical storage, for low-wind low-solar situations), poor co-operation between power generating companies, and few neighbours willing to buy power at rich prices, and currently poor mix in the grid creating higher costs trying to follow variable wind power. At first reading, www.windontario.ca look very anti-wind, but when you scroll to bottom, they explain they aren't anti-wind and compliments a lot of wind farms, places (e.g. Texas) have done wind power better and more profitably, farther away from population, better grid architecture, and doesn't create side effects like Ontario has unfortunately been.
I like wind power, but we really need to do a better job.
I think some people are quite upset at how Ontario's grid has been bungled up (and now we're selling Hydro One). Even with the Hydro One inefficiencies (that potentially create extra carbon cost), and it is really a separate controversial topic altogether. I agree cradle-to-grave carbon lifecycle of RER is still far cleaner than for diesels, for total planet pollution electric trains vs. diesel trains. Even with the various inefficiencies currently in our grid.
A sort of a silver lining, to the electrical grid pessimism, is we currently generally have an electrical surplus now, and we need more electrical sinks (e.g. RER) to lose less money getting rid of surplus power (paying wind power companies to shut down, or doing a temporary expensive nuclear shutdown, or selling at fire sale price, or paying someone to take power).
There's other pros, such as lower operating costs, faster trains, more frequent service, that should be considered for RER. Even ignoring the grid problems. RER should be considered on its own merits, separately from our electric grid merits and issues.
A related topic is electrical grid efficiency. Ontario's power grid and electric generation mix isn't exactly a poster child at the moment -- for example, there is a pro-wind-power website is anti-ontario-wind (www.windontario.ca) -- due to grid inefficiencies such as shutting down nuclear power when the wind companies insist on generating too much power (with their profitable contracts), and sometimes having to pay someone else (e.g. U.S.) to take power. We have poor peaking infill capacity (e.g. gas peakers or electrical storage, for low-wind low-solar situations), poor co-operation between power generating companies, and few neighbours willing to buy power at rich prices, and currently poor mix in the grid creating higher costs trying to follow variable wind power. At first reading, www.windontario.ca look very anti-wind, but when you scroll to bottom, they explain they aren't anti-wind and compliments a lot of wind farms, places (e.g. Texas) have done wind power better and more profitably, farther away from population, better grid architecture, and doesn't create side effects like Ontario has unfortunately been.
I like wind power, but we really need to do a better job.
I think some people are quite upset at how Ontario's grid has been bungled up (and now we're selling Hydro One). Even with the Hydro One inefficiencies (that potentially create extra carbon cost), and it is really a separate controversial topic altogether. I agree cradle-to-grave carbon lifecycle of RER is still far cleaner than for diesels, for total planet pollution electric trains vs. diesel trains. Even with the various inefficiencies currently in our grid.
A sort of a silver lining, to the electrical grid pessimism, is we currently generally have an electrical surplus now, and we need more electrical sinks (e.g. RER) to lose less money getting rid of surplus power (paying wind power companies to shut down, or doing a temporary expensive nuclear shutdown, or selling at fire sale price, or paying someone to take power).
There's other pros, such as lower operating costs, faster trains, more frequent service, that should be considered for RER. Even ignoring the grid problems. RER should be considered on its own merits, separately from our electric grid merits and issues.
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