SmartTrack (Proposed)

[doady]

There is really no point in building a new rail corridor to Meadowvale when you could just upgrade the Milton which already serves Meadowvale.

That's the whole problem with SmartTrack too. It is just redundant when there is the GO Train system that is being upgrade and should be upgrade further and it might even interfere with GO too.

That's the whole story with transit in Toronto: existing in a bubble, either ignoring what the rest of the GTA is doing, or going out of their way to interfere with regional transit. Will Toronto ever lift its ban on 905 transit operations within its borders? Who knows...

 

[robmausser]

There is really no point in building a new rail corridor to Meadowvale when you could just upgrade the Milton which already serves Meadowvale.

That's the whole problem with SmartTrack too. It is just redundant when there is the GO Train system that is being upgrade and should be upgrade further and it might even interfere with GO too.

That's the whole story with transit in Toronto: existing in a bubble, either ignoring what the rest of the GTA is doing, or going out of their way to interfere with regional transit. Will Toronto ever lift its ban on 905 transit operations within its borders? Who knows...

Smart track will not interfere with GO RER as they are being combined together into one transit plan.

All that's happening are the extra stations proposed in Smart track are being added to GO RER and fare integration with the TTC will be added. There won't be other trains or some competing service.

Its the opposite of dumb, its actually one of the smartest things Toronto has ever decided to do, rather than our typical subways to nowhere.

 

[ssiguy2]

^ I agree.

Smart Track makes use of already existing infrastructure and ROW instead of ultra expensive and time consuming underground subways. It is just another name for suburban rail.

Also as robmausser also states it will be run as part of the TTC.............no extra fare. That means a lot because many who may want to take GO/RER will still not be able to due to the much higher cost. There can be 50 GO trains roll by everyday but if you can't afford them then they don't do you any good. An extra $10-$15 per commuting day is a LOT of money for low income workers, students, and people on fixed incomes.

 

[nfitz]

It's not ancient history. How many times do I need to say it?

I'm not sure ... you keep saying the same thing, I heard what you've now said three times, and there's neither anything in what you are saying about Scarborough nor is there anything recent. I keep pointing this out out, and your only response is to repeat the same thing again. Dude, you're pretty dense!

Running a bus along the Transitway can servce northern business parks by running off the transitway. I can't see heavy rail doing that. Though looking at Mississauga Transit's proposed service plan for those parks, it looks like they are going to be using the 401, not the Transitway.

 

[dowlingm]

Fare integration doesn't mean no extra fare. Since SmartTrack has no proper business plan as yet I think it's premature to suppose anything about this project such as fares. The emerging possibility that it might sink the Scarborough subway is pretty hilarious though.

 

[gweed123]

Fare integration doesn't mean no extra fare. Since SmartTrack has no proper business plan as yet I think it's premature to suppose anything about this project such as fares. The emerging possibility that it might sink the Scarborough subway is pretty hilarious though.

That's very true. The TTC has said no to it so far, but fare integration doesn't necessarily preclude fare-by-distance or fare zones on the TTC either in order to bring longer distance trips more in line with GO RER/SmartTrack fares.

 

[Paolo]

what exactly is smart track? is it a go train? is it a LRT train? is it a subway train? or is it some new kind of trolly we never seen before?

 

[robmausser]

what exactly is smart track? is it a go train? is it a LRT train? is it a subway train? or is it some new kind of trolly we never seen before?

this hasn't been set in stone but if you read the Metrolinx reports on GO RER, it will simply absorb Smarttrack. Aka, it will be the same trains/system as GO RER.

Which will be most likely something like this:

Why even bother then? Because GO RER plans do not have many features that Smarttrack outlined. Most importantly:

1. Stations downtown. Nowhere in the GO RER plan preceding Smarttrack are there any plans for stations at Liberty Village, Gerrard, etc etc. Smarttrack ensures that the downtown is serviced by GO RER adequately.

2. Fare integration. Hopefully this will mean you can use TTC fare as long as you stay within downtown Toronto on GO RER, but most likely you will have to pay at least an extra buck. Still, $1 more for an express service is worth it for me personally.

 

[Paolo]

this hasn't been set in stone but if you read the Metrolinx reports on GO RER, it will simply absorb Smarttrack. Aka, it will be the same trains/system as GO RER.

Which will be most likely something like this:

View attachment 47333

Why even bother then? Because GO RER plans do not have many features that Smarttrack outlined. Most importantly:

1. Stations downtown. Nowhere in the GO RER plan preceding Smarttrack are there any plans for stations at Liberty Village, Gerrard, etc etc. Smarttrack ensures that the downtown is serviced by GO RER adequately.

2. Fare integration. Hopefully this will mean you can use TTC fare as long as you stay within downtown Toronto on GO RER, but most likely you will have to pay at least an extra buck. Still, $1 more for an express service is worth it for me personally.

I know what GO is, its Go Train or Go Station, but what the heck does RER mean? never heard the term Go RER? go where?

 

[wopchop]

I know what GO is, its Go Train or Go Station, but what the heck does RER mean? never heard the term Go RER? go where?

RER = Regional Express Rail.

The acronym comes from the system that serves Paris and outlying areas.

 

[TOareaFan]

I know what GO is, its Go Train or Go Station, but what the heck does RER mean? never heard the term Go RER? go where?

http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pd...0140626_BoardMtg_Regional_Express_Rail_EN.pdf

 

[mdrejhon]

I know what GO is, its Go Train or Go Station, but what the heck does RER mean? never heard the term Go RER? go where?

For newcomers to this thread, easiest explanation:

GO RER is a long-term 10 year upgrade to frequent electric GO trains that run every 15-minutes. Turns the whole GO network into a bona-fide surface subway. Go to the station anytime anyday, tap your Presto, and catch any train in either direction. Easy transfers between TTC/GO. No need to lookup train timetables because it comes by so often.

SmartTrack is the city's own enhancement of one of the already-proposed GO RER routes, with a modification of having more stations (add extra stations, to get 3x more stations) plus the controversial Eglinton spur that would likely consume 50% of the budget for only 10% of the route. The extra infill stations are a wonderful idea and much needed, but then becomes controversial on Eglinton (where no GO tracks exist) when some say we can extend ECLRT instead in that section.

To catch up, here's several documents about GO RER, as well as the recent multibillion dollar announcement.

Electric trains run faster (including high performance commuter trains and high speed trains), are cheaper to operate, less pollution to adjacent neigbours, accelerate faster, and capable of upgrade to more frequent service. In Europe, some of their equivalent "GO Trains" run every 3 minutes like a subway, including the use of electric double decker trains.

GO is also going to build new TTC/LRT/GO interchange stations, so there will be about a dozen places where you can easily transfer between TTC and GO via an indoor walk. Especially when the Eglinton Crosstown and Hurontario comes, they're building several GO/TTC interchanges on those new LRT routes. In ten years from now, imagine the GOtrain map being overlaid on all TTC subway maps, once the GO system behaves more like a subway (like some European commuter train routes), and becomes as convenient to hop onto a train as a TTC subway.

That's what GO RER is.

 

[mdrejhon]

That's the whole problem with SmartTrack too. It is just redundant when there is the GO Train system that is being upgrade and should be upgrade further and it might even interfere with GO too.

The good news is the city and Metrolinx will work hard behind the scenes to merge SmartTrack and the GO RER route to be exactly the same train. Count on it. See this very reasonable City Hall document, including chopping the expensive Eglinton spur (in favour of other options such as ECLRT), as well as Metrolinx working to merge SmartTrack elements into the same GO RER train, see page 17 "SmartTrack and RER congruence" of this Metrolinx GO PDF. There's also a PowerPoint PDF that is a co-operation with Metrolinx.

Based on these documents, it probably won't be duplicated service -- SmartTrack is simply an electric GO train that is integrated with TTC, and runs so often in both directions, that it becomes like catching a subway. An 'enhanced' upgrade to the original GO RER plan for this routing.

The chief controversy I don't like is that about half of SmartTrack cost is the new Eglinton route (3 new stations) where no GO tracks exist. SmartTrack should be 100% only on existing GO track, in my opinion, and be exactly the GO RER Bramalea-Unionville plan -- something the province was going to do anyway. The electricifation is worthwhile (already part of GO RER), and the extra new stations (most were not originally part of GO RER), and the city simply pays for accelerated introduction of extra GO stations, and the TTC fare (free transfers between TTC and SmartTrack GO RER route). That's what the city's 1/3 share is being spent on. But the city would pay much less if Toronto only paid for accelerated introduction of the system & the extra stations only, without adding a new "Eglinton GO train track" corridor.

 

[ehlow]

The good news is the city and Metrolinx will work hard behind the scenes to merge SmartTrack and the GO RER route to be exactly the same train. Count on it. See this very reasonable City Hall document, including chopping the expensive Eglinton spur (in favour of other options such as ECLRT), as well as Metrolinx working to merge SmartTrack elements into the same GO RER train, see page 17 "SmartTrack and RER congruence" of this Metrolinx GO PDF. There's also a PowerPoint PDF that is a co-operation with Metrolinx.

Based on these documents, it probably won't be duplicated service -- SmartTrack is simply an electric GO train that is integrated with TTC, and runs so often in both directions, that it becomes like catching a subway. An 'enhanced' upgrade to the original GO RER plan for this routing.

The chief controversy I don't like is that about half of SmartTrack cost is the new Eglinton route (3 new stations) where no GO tracks exist. SmartTrack should be 100% only on existing GO track, in my opinion, and be exactly the GO RER Bramalea-Unionville plan -- something the province was going to do anyway. The electricifation is worthwhile (already part of GO RER), and the extra new stations (most were not originally part of GO RER), and the city simply pays for accelerated introduction of extra GO stations, and the TTC fare (free transfers between TTC and SmartTrack GO RER route). That's what the city's 1/3 share is being spent on. But the city would pay much less if Toronto only paid for accelerated introduction of the system & the extra stations only, without adding a new "Eglinton GO train track" corridor.

Very good summary.

 

[Adjei]

I hope they don't use RER as the official branding and come up with something else.