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SmartTrack (Proposed)

robmausser

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It never really was a thing. It's always just been a few new GO stations basically ever since it stopped being a line on a map.

I'm thankful that Tory has been willing to walk back on his pet project when the experts told him it didn't make sense.. Instead of trying to force the thing through.
Damned if you do, damned if you dont eh? Push a project through and see it to the end, you are forcing the wrong project through and are a stubborn fool. Listen to the experts and modify it, you are a flip flopper and the project is "dead" and you "failed"

Its almost...almost like people have extreme political biases and just want to see the other team lose and their team win. Whether they realize it or not.
 

Neutrino

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^you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Damned if you do, damned if you dont eh? Push a project through and see it to the end, you are forcing the wrong project through and are a stubborn fool. Listen to the experts and modify it, you are a flip flopper and the project is "dead" and you "failed"

Its almost...almost like people have extreme political biases and just want to see the other team lose and their team win. Whether they realize it or not.
False choice. How about listening to the experts first before pushing? As it was originally proposed it was pure BS - recall the heavy rail Eglinton west portion?

AoD
 

robmausser

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False choice. How about listening to the experts first before pushing? As it was originally proposed it was pure BS - recall the heavy rail Eglinton west portion?

AoD
Dont throw out the baby with the bathwater, there is no denying that stations at Liberty etc have significant merit and benefit the system.

The heavy rail portion on Eglinton was dumb, but that doesnt mean other aspects were and are worth pursuing.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Dont throw out the baby with the bathwater, there is no denying that stations at Liberty etc have significant merit and benefit the system.

The heavy rail portion on Eglinton was dumb, but that doesnt mean other aspects were and are worth pursuing.
Which it was, via RER. ST wasn't anything like RER as originally envisioned, it was a "surface subway"- in fact, in the end it was a sweet nothing that sucked up space, time and money. I am not sure why we need to have this "baby" in the conversation in the first place.

AoD
 

robmausser

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Which it was, via RER. ST wasn't anything like RER as originally envisioned, it was a "surface subway"- in fact, in the end it was a sweet nothing that sucked up space, time and money. I am not sure why we need to have this "baby" in the conversation in the first place.

AoD
Show me a single document that Metrolinx had plans for stations at Liberty, St.Clair, Lawrence, Finch, East Harbour, Gerrard with RER prior to the Smarttack plan. Their "50 stations analysis" came about as a result of Smarttrack.

Adding these stations are a huge benefit to the city, and were not planned prior to Smarttrack in any way.
 

AlvinofDiaspar

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Show me a single document that Metrolinx had plans for stations at Liberty, St.Clair, Lawrence, Finch, East Harbour, Gerrard with RER prior to the Smarttack plan. Their "50 stations analysis" came about as a result of Smarttrack.

Adding these stations are a huge benefit to the city, and were not planned prior to Smarttrack in any way.
That's a facetious argument - if you need someone else's proposal to determine if you want to put stations at certain locations, you aren't doing your job properly. It's like saying we wouldn't have come up with RER if not for Smartrack.

AoD
 

drum118

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Show me a single document that Metrolinx had plans for stations at Liberty, St.Clair, Lawrence, Finch, East Harbour, Gerrard with RER prior to the Smarttack plan. Their "50 stations analysis" came about as a result of Smarttrack.

Adding these stations are a huge benefit to the city, and were not planned prior to Smarttrack in any way.
There was talk at Metrolinx long before Tory became mayor that St Clair was to have 2 GO stations. The Barrie Line had more legs, as it was to service the new ROW being built at the time. There was talk about a station at Queen as well, but well down the road.

East Harbour wasn't part of any Smart Track and only came about due to the plan development for the area now. It wasn't in Waterfront master plan for the Waterfront, since there was to be a GO station at Cherry St, but it wouldn't service the RHC Line. This was back in 2008.

Gerrard was part of the DRL plan.
 

robmausser

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That's a facetious argument - if you need someone else's proposal to determine if you want to put stations at certain locations, you aren't doing your job properly. It's like saying we wouldn't have come up with RER if not for Smartrack.

AoD
Thats fine, I agree. I think that Metrolinx wasn't doing their job properly and was neglecting Toronto in their RER plan. Thankfully Smarttrack fixed that.
 

Amare

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Thats fine, I agree. I think that Metrolinx wasn't doing their job properly and was neglecting Toronto in their RER plan. Thankfully Smarttrack fixed that.
Tory simply could have gone to the province and demanded for additional GO stations instead of playing with his little SmartTrack file and wasting our time and money. Remember, it's because of him that staff got redeployed from planning the DRL onto his pixie dust transit file.

Why would we give him credit for wasting years of our time? He initially supported the DRL, then he reverted to his pixie dust plan and made that his priority, then he realized that it was unraveling and came back to support the DRL.
 

sixrings

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Also didn't smart track essentially kill the idea of using the RT corridor as a possible home for an upgraded subway.
 

rbt

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Also didn't smart track essentially kill the idea of using the RT corridor as a possible home for an upgraded subway.
Temporarily. Metrolinx has since discovered they can build out the GO line without removing the RT stations; which means you could still use the RT space for another use in the future.

Eglinton LRT is in the way now though as it's at the same depth as the subway. It would likely be much easier to extend Eglinton LRT into the corridor and replace part of the Eglinton East extension with the subway.

Might be cheaper to demolish SCC (station, mall, city offices, and condos) and rebuild the entire neighbourhood at Kennedy.
 
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sixrings

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Temporarily. Metrolinx has since discovered they can build out the GO line without removing the RT stations; which means you could still use the RT space for another use in the future.

Eglinton LRT is in the way now though as it's at the same depth as the subway. It would likely be much easier to extend Eglinton LRT into the corridor and replace part of the Eglinton East extension with the subway.

Might be cheaper to demolish SCC (station, mall, city offices, and condos) and rebuild the entire neighbourhood at Kennedy.
I've promoted the rebuild at Kennedy for years but no takers. Without a highway how do you expect it to be a city centre.
 

Rainforest

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IMO, John Tory should be blamed for watering down his SmartTrack plan, rather than for proposing it. The concept was sound, with the exception of Eglinton West heavy rail. The Eglinton West part reverted to LRT soon after Tory got elected.

The most ambitious implementation would incorporate the Relief Line, by constructing a new underground mainline tunnel under downtown, serving both the Relief Line tasks and the enhanced longer-range GO services.

Even a modest implementation would see a much more frequent rail service within 416, that would reduce the subway crowding and make quite a few trips faster.

Instead, we are getting a few more stations, but same frequency as would be provided by the provincial RER plan without any input from Tory.
 

ssiguy2

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I thought one of the key advantages of ST over RER was that ST was going to be a TTC fare. For the RER section that was part of ST, is that still the case? Will someone still be able to, for example, take RER from Weston or Oriole to downtown with a TTC fare like they were going to be able to do under ST?
 

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