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SmartTrack (Proposed)

rbt

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Sometimes I think people will never accept the costs of anything. They're always sticker shocked. Hey you build it for cheaper then.
I believe it's also a city project; so these would be escalated costs as paid to the contractor after work is complete.

The province doing the same work would shave 20% off the published price simply by booking it in 2017 dollars (when the project estimates were completed) despite taking on new debt matching the city amount.
 

rbt

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I feel like East Harbour is meant to be a transit hub, so my vote would be to cancel Gerrard Station on Smarttrack.
I expect that's what will happen; although it doesn't really eliminate Gerrard Station but moves the work to the Ontario Line books as the current design puts it in a widened GO corridor.
 

ssiguy2

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What I don't understand about ST is why it stops at Eglinton. The entire Union to Brampton section on the Kitchener line is completely grade separated so why doesn't it just continue on towards Brampton, Pearson, or at least Woodbine?
 

raptor

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What I don't understand about ST is why it stops at Eglinton. The entire Union to Brampton section on the Kitchener line is completely grade separated so why doesn't it just continue on towards Brampton, Pearson, or at least Woodbine?
what is "it"? ST is not a new line, but merely 6 new stations on existing GO lines.
 

robmausser

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What I don't understand about ST is why it stops at Eglinton. The entire Union to Brampton section on the Kitchener line is completely grade separated so why doesn't it just continue on towards Brampton, Pearson, or at least Woodbine?
The trains that will be servicing the "Smarttrack" stations will continue to Bramalea as the trains being used are the one and the same for GO-RER/Expansion.

Perhaps you will have to pay more fare, but I think that fair. Fair fare for further, frankly.
 

lead82

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whether it would have been built or not, it's included in that cost.

There is a lot of associated infrastructure that is funded through the SmartTrack funding that brings the costs up.

For example, i'm fairly certian that the St. Clair West Transportation Master Plan Improvements are a part of the funding, which have an estimated cost of $219m alone.
See that should be called out. I’d be fine with that inclusion but the public should know what’s included in those costs.
 

lead82

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Sometimes I think people will never accept the costs of anything. They're always sticker shocked. Hey you build it for cheaper then.
I accept that building public infrastructure is expensive. What I don’t accept is being fleeced by contractors and government lies when they put in huge contingencies and burn them through incompetence in delivery or through overbuilding (e.g. TYSSE, Viva, Mississauga BRT) infrastructure. It’s also fair game to know what’s included in public infrastructure costs. Canadians pay a lot for infrastructure but get very little built because of waste, indecision and bad decisions made for political expediency rather than actual need.
 

OneCity

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If SmartTrack ends up as an "express" service and the Ontario Line as a "local" service, wouldn't there be stations that serve both lines?
Providing redundancy to key areas is a very underrated aspect of Smarttrack.

Some are trying to create a push back against "overbuilding" transit in terms of ridership but here we would be providing extra options as well as introducing a new layer of reliability that is much needed. Both items are extremely important to actually get more commuters confident enough to choose public transit.
 
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Steve X

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ST was supposed to be like a new subway line within the TTC fare structure. It is needs to be frequent and integrated with the TTC system. That way, ST wouldn't be overbuilt as people will transfer to ST like they do with the subway.

Instead, it has become clear that ST becomes apart of GO RER. Riders will likely have to pay a big premium to use (like the current TTC to GO transfer possibly without a co-fare) and will not be frequent, especially in off peak hours. This means the relief won't be there nor will ridership shift to ST. It's simply like the 407 of the TTC now. Yet Toronto is still investing money into this. With Ford's cuts, there is no way ST would have an affordable nor attractive fare structure. It has come to the point that is is probably better if they did nothing and invest the money on bus lanes instead.
 

sixrings

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Personally I was always skeptical if smarttrack would actually ever get ttc type fares. But Ford won't always be in power so maybe the next government will reduce the fare. I thought it shouldn't be built because it was taking money away from what we all know the city needs. Downtown relief line. Now we have a scaled back smart track with less stations, a danforth extension being studied again and a downtown subway not using subway cars. Great.
 

robmausser

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Personally I was always skeptical if smarttrack would actually ever get ttc type fares. But Ford won't always be in power so maybe the next government will reduce the fare. I thought it shouldn't be built because it was taking money away from what we all know the city needs. Downtown relief line. Now we have a scaled back smart track with less stations, a danforth extension being studied again and a downtown subway not using subway cars. Great.
well we got close, with the 1.50$ co fare. But this current government did indeed kill that.

Id say if the liberals were in power still I'd expect fare harmonization for Smarttrack, but I doubt it now.

I still see merit in it though, especially in off-loading people who would normally go all the way to Union and then reverse back on TTC to their areas of employment.
 

asher__jo

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ST was supposed to be like a new subway line within the TTC fare structure. It is needs to be frequent and integrated with the TTC system. That way, ST wouldn't be overbuilt as people will transfer to ST like they do with the subway.
That was the 'back of the napkin' plan, just like the Ontario line is to some extent. The plan itself was good, but there were no studies done or discussions with Metrolinx if it was possible.
 

Bureaucromancer

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That was the 'back of the napkin' plan, just like the Ontario line is to some extent. The plan itself was good, but there were no studies done or discussions with Metrolinx if it was possible.
Two sides to this... On the one hand the Eglinton West portion was awful. There were signifcant flaws to that design even if the Richview corridor was still in place, and an obvious lack of understanding that it wasn't. On the other, the rest of the plan was and remains entirely possible - what's lacking is an understanding of or willingness to fund the level signalization needed for sub 5 minute frequencies. At the end of the day a "subway" level mainline service is completely viable, but also needs subway level infrastructure, no one in Tory's office seemed to ever accept that it's not just a question of running trains.
 

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