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SmartTrack (Proposed)

robmausser

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I thought one of the key advantages of ST over RER was that ST was going to be a TTC fare. For the RER section that was part of ST, is that still the case? Will someone still be able to, for example, take RER from Weston or Oriole to downtown with a TTC fare like they were going to be able to do under ST?
It was supposed to be. I personally think that ALL RER within the Toronto border should be the same fare as TTC, or at least a very minimal extra "express transit' cost.

But thats something that turns out is more difficult to get the province to do than even building RER in the first place.
 

cplchanb

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It was supposed to be. I personally think that ALL RER within the Toronto border should be the same fare as TTC, or at least a very minimal extra "express transit' cost.

But thats something that turns out is more difficult to get the province to do than even building RER in the first place.
probably because the TTC fare itself is too low to sustain heavy rail operations. They should have a unified fare structure but hike the subway and heavy rail services to make it more
sustainable.
 

robmausser

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Yeah the 22 stations thing is a bit of a misnomer. There was never going to be 22 new stations with ST. The whole idea was to use as much of the existing GO network as possible.

Now, the plan has been whittled down for sure, theres no denying that, but that begs the question of why to misinform with this "22 new stations" falsehood if thats the case? Media be media.
 

salsa

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Yeah the 22 stations thing is a bit of a misnomer. There was never going to be 22 new stations with ST. The whole idea was to use as much of the existing GO network as possible.

Now, the plan has been whittled down for sure, theres no denying that, but that begs the question of why to misinform with this "22 new stations" falsehood if thats the case? Media be media.
Lol

211294



Sorry, but the reporter's recollection of his original promise was entirely correct.
 
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innsertnamehere

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View attachment 211294


Sorry, but the reporter was correct.
no, it hasn't gone from 22 to 4.

The original scheme had 8 stations that already existed (Unionville, Milliken, Agincourt, Kennedy, Scarborough, Danforth, Union, Bloor), which were planned to be upgraded. So the original scheme itself only proposed 14 *new* stations.

Of those 14 stations, 6-8 are still scheduled to be constructed, depending on whether or not Gerrard and Lawrence West get cut now with Fords scheme. And of the 6 stations that have been cut, 3 of them lie on the corridor of the Eglinton West LRT which now has a replacement scheme to provide much better transit service than what SmartTrack initially promised.
 

salsa

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no, it hasn't gone from 22 to 4.

The original scheme had 8 stations that already existed (Unionville, Milliken, Agincourt, Kennedy, Scarborough, Danforth, Union, Bloor), which were planned to be upgraded. So the original scheme itself only proposed 14 *new* stations.

Of those 14 stations, 6-8 are still scheduled to be constructed, depending on whether or not Gerrard and Lawrence West get cut now with Fords scheme. And of the 6 stations that have been cut, 3 of them lie on the corridor of the Eglinton West LRT which now has a replacement scheme to provide much better transit service than what SmartTrack initially promised.
That is true but I was addressing specifically the "22 stations", which is a "fabrication" not by the media but by the candidate himself.
 

mdrejhon

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Yeah the 22 stations thing is a bit of a misnomer. There was never going to be 22 new stations with ST. The whole idea was to use as much of the existing GO network as possible.

Now, the plan has been whittled down for sure, theres no denying that, but that begs the question of why to misinform with this "22 new stations" falsehood if thats the case? Media be media.
I think it's more of a decrease of 22 stations down to approximately ~18 or ~19(ish) stations when you consider the SmartTrack helped encourage GO to proceed with some elements to their GO Expansion Plan:

211338

Source: Page 19 of Metrolinx PDF GO Expansion Business Case

While the SmartTrack conversation was a bit of a political circus, it did get the conversation started for things like subway-style level boarding for future electric GO trains.

In addition to subway-style boarding for GO trains....
....The GO Expansion frequencies are upgraded at some stations (up to 12 trains per hour), with various stations getting 5 minute, 10 minute service (better than 15 minutes)

211351


I am not defending Tory but the SmartTrack exercise was useful to force a discussion on starting metro-league frequencies on the GO network.

These don't yet include the SmartTrack stations, but the upgraded GO frequencies were partially inspired by the SmartTrack conversations.

There is debate how much the SmartTrack exercise influenced this, but having metro frequency service & level boarding.... sounds a hell lot like SmartTrack in ways.

So there's either plausible deniability or some inspirational influence in GO Business Case (choose your favourite term).
 
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TheTigerMaster

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SCC is also a more central location than Kennedy/Eglinton.
SCC isn't a city centre. It's a shopping mall and bus terminal. Utterly ignorable if you're not using one of the bus routes that converges at that terminal.

Move SCC to Kennedy Eglinton. Far more accessible by transit with Line 2 + GO RER + ECRLT + EELRT there. It's also the densest region of Scarbrough. Eglinton East could very easily become the gateway to Downtown Scarborough.

SCC remains a failure that will never be as dense as even Humber Bay Shores. Eglinton and Kennedy could very well be the next NYCC.

Imagine having an area with three covering rapid transit lines, and deciding not to locate your downtown there. Crazy.
 

sixrings

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SCC isn't a city centre. It's a shopping mall and bus terminal. Utterly ignorable if you're not using one of the bus routes that converges at that terminal.

Move SCC to Kennedy Eglinton. Far more accessible by transit with Line 2 + GO RER + ECRLT + EELRT there. It's also the densest region of Scarbrough. Eglinton East could very easily become the gateway to Downtown Scarborough.

SCC remains a failure that will never be as dense as even Humber Bay Shores. Eglinton and Kennedy could very well be the next NYCC.

Imagine having an area with three covering rapid transit lines, and deciding not to locate your downtown there. Crazy.
But I like STC skating rink and YMCA. Very much like downtown Mississauga
 

WislaHD

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The private sector redevelopment of the Golden Mile will result in a real downtown for Scarborough, regardless of what the public sector desires for Scarborough Town Centre.
 

44 North

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I think it's more of a decrease of 22 stations down to approximately ~18 or ~19(ish) stations when you consider the SmartTrack helped encourage GO to proceed with some elements to their GO Expansion Plan:

View attachment 211338
Source: Page 19 of Metrolinx PDF GO Expansion Business Case

While the SmartTrack conversation was a bit of a political circus, it did get the conversation started for things like subway-style level boarding for future electric GO trains.

In addition to subway-style boarding for GO trains....
....The GO Expansion frequencies are upgraded at some stations (up to 12 trains per hour), with various stations getting 5 minute, 10 minute service (better than 15 minutes)

View attachment 211351

I am not defending Tory but the SmartTrack exercise was useful to force a discussion on starting metro-league frequencies on the GO network.

These don't yet include the SmartTrack stations, but the upgraded GO frequencies were partially inspired by the SmartTrack conversations.

There is debate how much the SmartTrack exercise influenced this, but having metro frequency service & level boarding.... sounds a hell lot like SmartTrack in ways.

So there's either plausible deniability or some inspirational influence in GO Business Case (choose your favourite term).
Hm, looking at the map wonder if Richmond Hill can ask Milton what she's doing Friday night. Cue Spice Girls' 2 Becomes 1.

Seriously do a SmartTrack thing and morph the two into one line.

SCC isn't a city centre. It's a shopping mall and bus terminal. Utterly ignorable if you're not using one of the bus routes that converges at that terminal.

Move SCC to Kennedy Eglinton. Far more accessible by transit with Line 2 + GO RER + ECRLT + EELRT there. It's also the densest region of Scarbrough. Eglinton East could very easily become the gateway to Downtown Scarborough.

SCC remains a failure that will never be as dense as even Humber Bay Shores. Eglinton and Kennedy could very well be the next NYCC.

Imagine having an area with three covering rapid transit lines, and deciding not to locate your downtown there. Crazy.
Bah no need for this. It's got lots of density, and jobs. Where's HBS' offices, or factories, or institutions, or retail for that matter? Humber Bay is very much subruban, but on the y-axis (vertical). And we rip on a mall, but in terms of the retail evolution that is still fairly urban. One stop shopping. Compare that to the devolution toward Big Box. The mall may very well be equated to an authentic old timey town square in that regard. Not saying Eg/Kennedy isn't dense, but SC is fairly well populated and has lots of the ingredients of a suburban downtown. Def compared to some of the other ones.

Any hiccup in growth, seems to me, related to indecision regarding the official plan for the area. Some will point to Line 3, others will biasedly claim there's something inherently wrong with Scarb. But I think a lot of it has to do with questions regarding Sheppard. A few decades it was supposed to be Line 4 leading right to the centre. Then last ten years it was an LRT with an afterthought spur that was more of a concept on a map. Can't master plan around questions like that, and hard to develop without a real plan.
 

11th

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SCC isn't a city centre. It's a shopping mall and bus terminal. Utterly ignorable if you're not using one of the bus routes that converges at that terminal.

Move SCC to Kennedy Eglinton. Far more accessible by transit with Line 2 + GO RER + ECRLT + EELRT there. It's also the densest region of Scarbrough. Eglinton East could very easily become the gateway to Downtown Scarborough.

SCC remains a failure that will never be as dense as even Humber Bay Shores. Eglinton and Kennedy could very well be the next NYCC.

Imagine having an area with three covering rapid transit lines, and deciding not to locate your downtown there. Crazy.
If we are speaking of Scarborough "Civic" Centre, then the present location is better than Kennedy/Eglinton.
Kennedy/Eglinton may have more commercial activity, but it is a farther reach for north Scarborough (and especially Malvern).
 

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