News   Jul 19, 2024
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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

What makes you think BRT does not get stuck in traffic. Here in NA they do. Even VIVA gets stuck in traffic, with the queue lanes.

True BRT is on a dedicated lane like LRT for at least most of the route (like Ottawa BRT, the new Mississauga BRT). Sheppard has no dedicated lane as far as I know.

It doesn't even have the basics like off-board fare collection as far as I know. It's a normal express bus like Finch Rocket 199.

What is the difference between the Sheppard express bus and a regular bus? The only difference is that the stops are further apart. I don't see how anybody would consider that to be BRT.
 
It would also require closing the Sheppard subway for years. And there are 50,000 people who use it per day

Years? Not quite. A lot of the work can be done with the line still operational.

1) Reduce platform lengths so that half the platform can be closed off for reconstruction, while the other half remains open (remember, Sheppard has knock-out walls at the end of the platforms, because the platforms themselves are long enough for 6 car trains).

2) Reconstruct half the platform to be compatible with low floor LRT vehicles.

3) Shut the line down for a month or two to replace the tracks and cabling system to be LRT compatible.

4) Re-open the line as an LRT line, and proceed with reconstructing the other half of the platform.

Do the shutdown during the summer when a) ridership is lower because there are fewer students and more workers on vacation, and b) it's nicer weather outside to wait for a shuttle bus.

What is the difference between the Sheppard express bus and a regular bus? The only difference is that the stops are further apart. I don't see how anybody would consider that to be BRT.

It's not BRT, by nearly any possible definition. To even be BRT-lite, it would need to have queue jump lanes and signal priority, in addition to the wider stop spacing.
 
It would also require closing the Sheppard subway for years. And there are 50,000 people who use it per day

I'm not sure why it would need to be closed for more than a few weekends for a conversion.

The hardest part might be the platform height (overhead and track width changes don't conflict); luckily Sheppard stations have a ton of unused platform space behind false walls.

We might run short trains for a while (3 cars instead of 4) so 50% of the platform may be converted at a time. Even that isn't entirely necessary, they can tear down platforms overnight and put in temporary wood flooring above the now lowered platform.

Elevators and some escalators would be out of service for much of the conversion.
 
I'm not sure why it would need to be closed for more than a few weekends for a conversion.

The hardest part might be the platform height (overhead and track width changes don't conflict); luckily Sheppard stations have a ton of unused platform space behind false walls.

We might run short trains for a while (3 cars instead of 4) so 50% of the platform may be converted at a time. Even that isn't entirely necessary, they can tear down platforms overnight and put in temporary wood flooring above the now lowered platform.

Elevators and some escalators would be out of service for much of the conversion.

The hardest part is Tunnel Height - not platform height. Try to solve that one with night closures.
 
I don't think anybody would consider what is there currently to be BRT, it's just a normal bus + express bus. This to me is what BRT looks like:

BRT_option_Western_Ashland_0.jpg


guangzhou-brt-1.JPG

Technically, none of those are true BRT either. True BRT is grade-separated, e.g. Ottawa Transitway. RT = rapid transit = grade-separation.
 
Technically, none of those are true BRT either. True BRT is grade-separated, e.g. Ottawa Transitway. RT = rapid transit = grade-separation.

Give me a break

Guangzhou is commonly accepted as BRT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBRT

That Chicago proposal is called BRT by everyone:
http://www.brtchicago.com/

Ottawa's BRT is NOT fully grade separated. It runs on bus lanes through downtown on normal streets and must stop at traffic lights.
 
Is there even a fully grade separated BRT? I've never heard of such a system. And by BRT I mean with "traditional" busses and not with rubber tire trains.
 
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The hardest part is Tunnel Height - not platform height. Try to solve that one with night closures.

Even if we were to use pantographs, why would tunnel heights be a problem? Pantographs are very flexible and can compress quite a bit. The pantographs on our new LFLRVs have no problem dealing with the low tunnel height in the streetcar-subway at Spadina and Union Stations. The tunnel height in Sheppard look to be significantly higher than the tunnels at Spadina and Union.

Edit: Never mind. The body height of a LRV is almost exactly the same height as a subway car (~3.6 meters). This leaves no room for a pantograph or trolley pole on top. The subways cars already have hardly any breathing room in the tunnels.
 
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Is there even a fully grade separated BRT? I've heard of such a system. And by BRT I mean with "traditional" busses and not with rubber tire trains.

So far in this thread one person has suggested that the Sheppard Rocket express is BRT.

Another has suggested that 95-100% of what most of the world calls BRTs should not be called "BRT" because they aren't fully grade separated.

So you've got both extremes represented here lol :)

Look it's the world's first BRT:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rede_Integrada_de_Transporte

*GASP* the buses have to cross a traffic light!!
Linha_Verde_Curitiba_BRT_02_2013_Est_Marechal_Floriano_5970.JPG
 
They will never convert the Sheppard subway to LRT. Never!
With only 1 train required every 6 minutes at peak, and a lot less off-peak (sure, they run every 6 minutes, but if they did it based on demand, like they do the other routes, it would be very infrequent), then surely the Sheppard subway IS LRT already!
 

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