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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

GenerationW said:
Miller and Giambrone, hardly right-leaning, rejected conversion after floating that trial balloon.

But the bigger obstacle is that there are more than enough suburban Councilors (and some MPPs) who still support Sheppard, and want to finish it. While that is likely not possible in the current political climate, those suburban Councilors will, at the very least, use Sheppard as a bargaining chip in future transit expansions. And considering they tend to be pro-subway/anti-LRT, you'd have to give them something really good to agree to a Sheppard subway conversion.

The old "seamless" Finch-Sheppard LRT idea -- not seen in this section for quite awhile.
Click to expand...

IF Hudak and Tory gets elected all bets are off.
 
GenerationW said:
Miller and Giambrone, hardly right-leaning, rejected conversion after floating that trial balloon.

But the bigger obstacle is that there are more than enough suburban Councilors (and some MPPs) who still support Sheppard, and want to finish it. While that is likely not possible in the current political climate, those suburban Councilors will, at the very least, use Sheppard as a bargaining chip in future transit expansions. And considering they tend to be pro-subway/anti-LRT, you'd have to give them something really good to agree to a Sheppard subway conversion.

The old "seamless" Finch-Sheppard LRT idea -- not seen in this section for quite awhile.
Click to expand...

Although they were left-leaning, I find it hard to accept Miller and Giambrone's positions on many transit issues due to the way that Transit City was proposed: as a "one-technology-fits-all" social engineering experiment designed to put LRTs wherever possible to improve low-income communities and "avenue-ize" the city. Although I suppose those are noble goals that's not what transit should be about, and given that method of thinking about transit it's hardly surprising those particular two would reject a Sheppard conversion.

Although don't get me wrong, Transit City was still far better than the mismatched, contentious remnant of it that persists as our transit plans to this day.
 
MrsNesbitt said:
Although they were left-leaning, I find it hard to accept Miller and Giambrone's positions on many transit issues due to the way that Transit City was proposed: as a "one-technology-fits-all" social engineering experiment designed to put LRTs wherever possible to improve low-income communities and "avenue-ize" the city. Although I suppose those are noble goals that's not what transit should be about, and given that method of thinking about transit it's hardly surprising those particular two would reject a Sheppard conversion.

Although don't get me wrong, Transit City was still far better than the mismatched, contentious remnant of it that persists as our transit plans to this day.
Click to expand...
No wonder LRT has marketing issues. Miller was tone deaf to the outer 416. Transit City was a good idea in the sense that it covered the whole city, something even an Eglinton Subway and a Sheppard Subway won't do, not even a DRL to Don Mills/Sheppard and Eglinton/Weston will cover the city. Finch West should be built just based off the fact there is a hole between the Eglinton Crosstwon Pearson Extension and Steeles Ave.
 
MrsNesbitt said:
Although they were left-leaning, I find it hard to accept Miller and Giambrone's positions on many transit issues due to the way that Transit City was proposed: as a "one-technology-fits-all" social engineering experiment designed to put LRTs wherever possible to improve low-income communities and "avenue-ize" the city. Although I suppose those are noble goals that's not what transit should be about, and given that method of thinking about transit it's hardly surprising those particular two would reject a Sheppard conversion.

Although don't get me wrong, Transit City was still far better than the mismatched, contentious remnant of it that persists as our transit plans to this day.
Click to expand...

Agreed completely (I seem to be saying that a lot to your posts, haha). Had Transit City consisted of: a DRL, an interlined and completely grade-separated SLRT + ECLRT, and one of either an interlined SELRT and FWLRT with a converted Sheppard Subway, or an SEBRT and FWBRT, I would have been 100% in support of it.

This is why I think that Sheppard and Finch should be put on the backburner for the moment, with at most queue jump lanes and signal priority implemented as an interim measure. Focus on GO REX and the DRL (which may end up being one and the same), and then see how travel patterns shift and demand changes. Then determine the appropriate 'permanent' solution for those corridors.
 
gweed123 said:
Agreed completely (I seem to be saying that a lot to your posts, haha). Had Transit City consisted of: a DRL, an interlined and completely grade-separated SLRT + ECLRT, and one of either an interlined SELRT and FWLRT with a converted Sheppard Subway, or an SEBRT and FWBRT, I would have been 100% in support of it.

This is why I think that Sheppard and Finch should be put on the backburner for the moment, with at most queue jump lanes and signal priority implemented as an interim measure. Focus on GO REX and the DRL (which may end up being one and the same), and then see how travel patterns shift and demand changes. Then determine the appropriate 'permanent' solution for those corridors.
Click to expand...

Sheppard yes, Finch should be built. There is no way to get a subway up there on Finch. Sheppard has a subway, it's a different issue.
 
MrsNesbitt said:
Although they were left-leaning, I find it hard to accept Miller and Giambrone's positions on many transit issues due to the way that Transit City was proposed: as a "one-technology-fits-all" social engineering experiment designed to put LRTs wherever possible to improve low-income communities and "avenue-ize" the city. Although I suppose those are noble goals that's not what transit should be about, and given that method of thinking about transit it's hardly surprising those particular two would reject a Sheppard conversion.

Although don't get me wrong, Transit City was still far better than the mismatched, contentious remnant of it that persists as our transit plans to this day.
Click to expand...

What makes you think that Transit City was a "one technology fits all" social experiment? TC didn't even use just one technology.
 
ehlow said:
It also had a bus plan/map, so it had two technologies.
Click to expand...

TheTigerMaster said:
Yeah. IIRC, Transit City included two BRTs and great enhancements to dozens of other bus routes. I don't understand how people call it an LRT-only plan when the most important component was arguably the bus plan.
Click to expand...
The Transit City BRT plan, I found out about that through the internet later on. They didn't even publicize that well, so that was mistake number one. What the public knew about was the LRT plan, and as I have said before there was little opposition to it until Ford opened his mouth. The Transit City failure was as much the people of Toronto as any number of politicians.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
The Transit City BRT plan, I found out about that through the internet later on. They didn't even publicize that well, so that was mistake number one. What the public knew about was the LRT plan, and as I have said before there was little opposition to it until Ford opened his mouth. The Transit City failure was as much the people of Toronto as any number of politicians.
Click to expand...

Well there are two TBMs digging away under Eglinton so clearly something will come out of it, whether it be Eglinton Crosstown LRT, Eglinton fully underground LRT, Eglinton full subway, Eglinton shortened subway, Eglinton underground + elevated LRT/ALRT, or abandoned tunnels for secret underground societies or gun smuggling.
 
ehlow said:
Well there are two TBMs digging away under Eglinton so clearly something will come out of it, whether it be Eglinton Crosstown LRT, Eglinton fully underground LRT, Eglinton full subway, Eglinton shortened subway, Eglinton underground + elevated LRT/ALRT, or abandoned tunnels for secret underground societies or gun smuggling.
Click to expand...
:D you crack me up ehlow.... I agree, I think Eglinton under it's current state will become a full subway under Hudak. Question is, what do we do with the LRT vehicles? Can they be used on the street car routes?

TheTigerMaster said:
Who wants to form the underground secret society with me?
Click to expand...
I can be around 9-5
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
:D you crack me up ehlow.... I agree, I think Eglinton under it's current state will become a full subway under Hudak. Question is, what do we do with the LRT vehicles? Can they be used on the street car routes?
Click to expand...

Considering that Bombardier makes LRT, ALRT (SkyTrain) and HRT, I would say the order would be switched.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
:D you crack me up ehlow.... I agree, I think Eglinton under it's current state will become a full subway under Hudak.
Click to expand...
That seems implausible. Hudak has promised to stop all construction until the budget is balanced. He'd also promised to cut taxes. At best we are looking at a 5-year delay. So at best a 2025 opening, of something ... perhaps another Stubway.

Even if Hudak is elected, it seems unlikely that he'd still be around in 2025, so it doesn't seem reasonable to claim that it would become a full subway under Hudak.
 
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