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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

Woodbridge_Heights said:
Interlline with the York U extension and you have a my vote. The final route would be VMC to STC
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The better not do the "loop" plan at McCowan Station. Then the subway would go
From Vaughan to Sheppard, around the loop to STC, to Kipling.
The interlined one would go From Vaughan down to Union and up to Finch.
Having only 2 very long lines seems hard to run.
denfromoakvillemilton said:
This works! Alternate trains going downtown and to Scarborough at Sheppard West as well, would help traffic flow on Yonge University.
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I had a plan for this a few years ago. It could be fit in, and the best part is the bulk of the construction for the various interchange ramp to accomplish this would be built on airport lands.
 
BurlOak said:
The better not do the "loop" plan at McCowan Station. Then the subway would go
From Vaughan to Sheppard, around the loop to STC, to Kipling.
The interlined one would go From Vaughan down to Union and up to Finch.
Having only 2 very long lines seems hard to run.

I had a plan for this a few years ago. It could be fit in, and the best part is the bulk of the construction for the various interchange ramp to accomplish this would be built on airport lands.
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I think you would have to break at STC at that point. Or short turns at various points.
 
Putting aside that many of you are taking this 'promise' a tad too seriously.........(it wouldn't even start design till 2030, Ford, God forbid would have to be in his 4th term to see a shovel hit the ground...........

There is another problem w/this apparent idea (the loop) not being discussed.

Line 2 trains operate at six cars.

Line 4 trains operate at 4 cars; the platform is not finished far enough out at Bayview, Bessarion, Leslie or Don Mills to allow for that length of train.

The station boxes are large enough for six cars, but its still a very expensive reno to that line to make a loop work. So far as I can discern, that has not been costed into the proposal.
 
Cobra said:
A complete Sheppard from McCowan to Sheppard West once all the other lines are built is a good idea.
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I would say this ^^, if the loop (connecting Bloor and Sheppard Lines) makes more sense, than extending the Finch LRT East to connect the two portions of Line 1 (Spadina and Yonge).

A subway is more rapid and the purpose of the connection is supposed to be a speedy link connecting the two lines, not an above ground LRT with many stops servicing local density.

I know an LRT is not a streetcar ROW, but if you've ever taken the St.Clair streetcar to get from one side of Line 1 to the other, you know its actually much faster to go down to Bloor and take it across.
 
Northern Light said:
Putting aside that many of you are taking this 'promise' a tad too seriously.........(it wouldn't even start design till 2030, Ford, God forbid would have to be in his 4th term to see a shovel hit the ground...........

There is another problem w/this apparent idea (the loop) not being discussed.

Line 2 trains operate at six cars.

Line 4 trains operate at 4 cars; the platform is not finished far enough out at Bayview, Bessarion, Leslie or Don Mills to allow for that length of train.

The station boxes are large enough for six cars, but its still a very expensive reno to that line to make a loop work. So far as I can discern, that has not been costed into the proposal.
Click to expand...

I don't think it'd be expensive in the slightest. "Expensive" would be extending a station built for 4-car into one that can handle 6-car. This is one built for 6-car. Remove wall, wire for lights, tile, done. It'd be like a weekend or two. This would still never been needed. Heck you could reduce the walls for 2-car and that'd be enough capacity indefinitely, and that'd be with an extension.

As for discussion about Line 4 going to Shepard/McCowan, I think people are taking the concept map too seriously. No question any Line 4 extension wouldn't terminate at SC. It's the logical and historical point. It's probably shown the way it is continuing straight east for aesthetic purposes.
 
Northern Light said:
Putting aside that many of you are taking this 'promise' a tad too seriously.........(it wouldn't even start design till 2030, Ford, God forbid would have to be in his 4th term to see a shovel hit the ground...........

There is another problem w/this apparent idea (the loop) not being discussed.

Line 2 trains operate at six cars.

Line 4 trains operate at 4 cars; the platform is not finished far enough out at Bayview, Bessarion, Leslie or Don Mills to allow for that length of train.

The station boxes are large enough for six cars, but its still a very expensive reno to that line to make a loop work. So far as I can discern, that has not been costed into the proposal.
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Not true at all

They are actually starting conceptual preliminary design studies this year which sole purpose is review these type of things to choose the optimal alignment and connections which will move into detailed design likely start around the time SSE starts construction and should be ready for the time SSE is nearing completion with funding commitments coming as early as the 2026 election. The design can very easily be tendered for construction before 2030. That is the plan so long as the Cons stay in power. Liberals will continue support thi line as they are also big Provincial boosters in this part of Scarborough, NDP who knows?

https://globalnews.ca/news/5157545/ontario-budget-says-no-money-for-sheppard-subway-line/?utm_medium=Twitter&utm_source=@globalnewsto

"Although the Sheppard subway extension is drawn on the map, officials said there’s only money to do design work — and none, yet, to build it."

Of course they haven't allocated capital yet and its just over a decade from construction start and the numbers wont be known until further int the design. But make no mistake a standard design process is starting now. There is no reason not to take this seriously. Its now next on the books after current wave and all the elected politicians of any stripe in the area support the line heavily and no one serious would even try to resurrect LRT here. Slim possibility that if the NDP get in power they put it on the burner to spite Ford, but thats even doubtful if the design is moving along.
 
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44 North said:
I don't think it'd be expensive in the slightest. "Expensive" would be extending a station built for 4-car into one that can handle 6-car. This is one built for 6-car. Remove wall, wire for lights, tile, done. It'd be like a weekend or two. This would still never been needed. Heck you could reduce the walls for 2-car and that'd be enough capacity indefinitely, and that'd be with an extension.

As for discussion about Line 4 going to Shepard/McCowan, I think people are taking the concept map too seriously. No question any Line 4 extension wouldn't terminate at SC. It's the logical and historical point. It's probably shown the way it is continuing straight east for aesthetic purposes.
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I disagree because Ford is so adamant that the Scarborough subway will teminate at Sheppard Ave and NOT STC.

It would be weird to have a station at Sheppard and have the Sheppard subway dip down and avoid it.

I'm pretty convinced the Sheppard subway will now connect at Sheppard and McCowan to the Scarborough subway
 
robmausser said:
I disagree because Ford is so adamant that the Scarborough subway will teminate at Sheppard Ave and NOT STC.

It would be weird to have a station at Sheppard and have the Sheppard subway dip down and avoid it.

I'm pretty convinced the Sheppard subway will now connect at Sheppard and McCowan to the Scarborough subway
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For 35 years, the plan was for Sheppard subway to hit STC. It does not seem that weird to me that it would stay as original plan.
With both Sheppard Line and B-D Line going through STC - it gives the heart of Scarborough access to both north and south Toronto. With B-D extending up to McCowan and Sheppard, it means that North Scarborough can access both B-D Line (at McCowan/Sheppard station) and Sheppard Line (at Agincourt Station) without having to cross 401.
 
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BurlOak said:
For 35 years, the plan was for Sheppard subway to hit STC. It does not seem that weird to me that it would stay as original plan.
With both Sheppard Line and B-D Line going through STC - it gives the heart of Scarborough access to both north and south Toronto. With B-D extending up to McCowan and Sheppard, it means that North Scarborough can access both B-D Line (at McCowan/Sheppard station) and Sheppard Line (at Agincourt Station) without having to cross 401.
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Youre avoiding what I am saying. Why is Ford so adamant on a third station at Sheppard and McCowan then? Why would you build a station out there and have a subway line on Sheppard and have it completely avoid that station?

Seems awfully weird to spend all that money and only have the Sheppard Line completely avoid a station on Sheppard.

They would have drawn the map showing the Sheppard Line dip down to STC if that was there intent. Its not.
 
robmausser said:
Youre avoiding what I am saying. Why is Ford so adamant on a third station at Sheppard and McCowan then? Why would you build a station out there and have a subway line on Sheppard and have it completely avoid that station?

Seems awfully weird to spend all that money and only have the Sheppard Line completely avoid a station on Sheppard.

They would have drawn the map showing the Sheppard Line dip down to STC if that was there intent. Its not.
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I think you're correct, that the current plan is to have both go to McCowan/Sheppard. I also think Ford is still imagining a continuous loop at this location. I am saying something different.
  1. When they figure out that building an actual loop is extremely difficult if not impossible, they will just build a terminal station with tail tracks. Basically, the tail tracks will almost hit the CPR yard, so why not partner with them and build a train yard there, plus allow a bunch of development and another station at Finch. This fits in with the "let the developers pay" idea.
  2. If McCowan/Sheppard station on the B-D line is a terminal station, and people coming across Sheppard will have to make an actual transfer, then the argument will be that it's better to have the Sheppard line go to STC, which is more of a natural destination.
  3. Also, Scarborough will say that STC deserve the Sheppard line too - as always planned. They will say the reason B-D line crossed 401 was to reduce the number of buses coming down from the north, and not as a subway to subway transfer point.
 
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