Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

so does everyone think this will still be around as a project next election?

 

[nfitz]

so does everyone think this will still be around as a project next election?

Given that the Conservatives deferred the Scarborough extension for up to 4 more years, it seems unlikely that there'll have been any progress on anything in Scarborough until the next election, as it's due in 2022, and surely shovels-in-the-ground on Line 2 has now slipped from about 2020 to 2023 (or longer if they want some kind of PPP approach).

I hope we won't still be talking about the line 2 extension in the next election, but I figure we will be. So this project would surely still be around - as it has been for decades.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Given that the Conservatives deferred the Scarborough extension for up to 4 more years, it seems unlikely that there'll have been any progress on anything in Scarborough until the next election, as it's due in 2022, and surely shovels-in-the-ground on Line 2 has now slipped from about 2020 to 2023 (or longer if they want some kind of PPP approach).

I hope we won't still be talking about the line 2 extension in the next election, but I figure we will be. So this project would surely still be around - as it has been for decades.

well @OneCity @Rainforest how do you respond

 

[Hopkins123]

well @OneCity @Rainforest how do you respond

We finally have a government in place that's committed to building new subway expansion. With or without the City's or Fed's help. Why for just a moment can't we just be grateful for the hand that we've been dealt? According to the wording from Yurek, these lines are going to be built more or less concurrently. So one-third of the way between Ontario Line construction, the Yonge North Line will begin, then SSE, then Sheppard East. This whole timeline should comprise about 15 years, so ballpark all are operational by 2035.

One would also hope that Ontario Line West, Sheppard West and Bloor-Danforth West expansion will also come to the foray as priorities by that time no matter which party is governing.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

We finally have a government in place that's committed to building new subway expansion. With or without the City's or Fed's help. Why for just a moment can't we just be grateful for the hand that we've been dealt? According to the wording from Yurek, these lines are going to be built more or less concurrently. So one-third of the way between Ontario Line construction, the Yonge North Line will begin, then SSE, then Sheppard East. This whole timeline should comprise about 15 years, so ballpark all are operational by 2035.

One would also hope that Ontario Line West, Sheppard West and Bloor-Danforth West expansion will also come to the foray as priorities by that time no matter which party is governing.

This is a good answer, but I have to be honest, you werent so pro subway years ago when you first signed up here. What changed?

 

[sixrings]

What happens if PC's don't stay in power?

 

[JSF-1]

We finally have a government in place that's committed to building new subway expansion. With or without the City's or Fed's help

Wow you actually bought that bold face lie by Ford? You actually believe the Province will foot the entire $30 Billion if the City and Feds don't help? I would love to see the City and Feds call Ford on this obvious bluff. This Province is doing everything in its power to not spend money, so the idea that they will foot 100% of the bill is truly something else. Tell me where is the money going to come from? Increased Taxes?, Will we Borrow $30 Billion?, Oh wait let me guess the Private Sector will willingly give the Province $30 Billion

 

[narduch]

Wow you actually bought that bold face lie by Ford? You actually believe the Province will foot the entire $30 Billion if the City and Feds don't help? I would love to see the City and Feds call Ford on this obvious bluff. This Province is doing everything in its power to not spend money, so the idea that they will foot 100% of the bill is truly something else. Tell me where is the money going to come from? Increased Taxes?, Will we Borrow $30 Billion?, Oh wait let me guess the Private Sector will willingly give the Province $30 Billion

We'll be lucky if the Ontario Line has shovels in the ground by the next election. They originally claimed they could start construction in 2020. But later admitted that most of the design work already done on the DRL could not be used.

 

[JSF-1]

We'll be lucky if the Ontario Line has shovels in the ground by the next election. They originally claimed they could start construction in 2020. But later admitted that most of the design work already done on the DRL could not be used.

Its not just the Ontario Line that has question marks attached to it, but the SSE as well. The addition of a stop at Lawrence will require some re-planning as well I wonder if the Province is aware that Line 2 will need a new fleet of Trains before the SSE opens? On the topic of Cost when you consider the SSE, Ontario Line, EWLRT, Hurontario LRT, plus commitments in Ottawa and GO RER its clear the Province isn't doing anything without the Feds and municipalities help. Considering the Province cancelled the Missing Link project screwing Kitchener-Waterloo out of 2 Way All Day service until at least 2040 I am not ruling the out the idea the Province begin reneging on promises when things start getting to hot for them.

 

[nfitz]

We finally have a government in place that's committed to building new subway expansion. With or without the City's or Fed's help. Why for just a moment can't we just be grateful for the hand that we've been dealt? .

The design is to the point that they they are ready to move to the RFP stage, and it's fully funded. There were already commitments to do this and it was next on the list.

Not only has the province's interference broken the funding arrangements, they've been clear that it's coming in after two other lines and they already said it could be delayed by up to 4 years.

If one wants subway in Scarborough this announcement puts it at risk, delaying the decision point until after the next provincial and federal elections.

If the province was really committed to subway in Scarborough they'd proceed with the current 2026 plan (which you can see from the design drawings already has an alignment/slope through Lawrence that let's a station be placed there) with additional modifications and exclusions to allow for the extra station and extension to Sheppard.

 

[H4F33Z]

Why haven't anyone of the government's considered a Sheppard West extension a priority. We don't have any current East-West rapid transit connection from the both Yonge lines so I feel like this important for many people. You would have to go south then on Eglinton and then North or take a really long slow bus. I would take brt if cost was an issue. The Finch lrt connection would not be fast though cause it would make more local stops and is out of the question a long time ago so it doesn't make sense. The tail tracks of the West of Sheppard Yonge go all the way to wellbeck road so they wouldn't have to build that much.

 

[BurlOak]

Why haven't anyone of the government's considered a Sheppard West extension a priority. We don't have any current East-West rapid transit connection from the both Yonge lines so I feel like this important for many people. You would have to go south then on Eglinton and then North or take a really long slow bus. I would take brt if cost was an issue. The Finch lrt connection would not be fast though cause it would make more local stops and is out of the question a long time ago so it doesn't make sense. The tail tracks of the West of Sheppard Yonge go all the way to wellbeck road so they wouldn't have to build that much.

I am sure somebody will propose extending Sheppard West to Sheppard West Station, and to go deep under the Don River. Then they will conclude that it is too expensive, and that the Bathurst station will be extremely deep and expensive. Thus it will be put on hold.

The fact is, cut-and-cover from Welbeck to Don River (possible station at Senlac), bridge over Don River, cut-and-cover to Bathurst station.
Then it's not really worth using a TBM for 2km to Dufferin, so this should be cut-and-cover too.

 

[H4F33Z]

Sorry, totally ignored the fact that Sheppard crosses the Don near Bathurst. Well scrap that plan.

 

[OneCity]

well @OneCity @Rainforest how do you respond

Around 2022-2024 well have a proper subway design with stops funded and nearing shovels in the ground with an RT past its expiry date. No matter Cons, Libs or NDP the line will be in its best form ever and delivered when ready. Also strategically Sheppard will be starting detailed design around the same timeframe. The PC's have other issues but as far as transit infrastructure goes they have all the ducks lined up to leverage some serious support in their favour for over a decade.

Nfitz and a handful of others here see this as the Ford apocalypse and the end of transit building come 2022. Reality is a bull headed Ford will have put transit capital funding in a much more effective place for any party in the future should they be booted, and he is putting forth supportable designs for these important lines at a critical stages that no party would likely dare overturn again by the opposition parties.. Unlike at council no one can stop him from delivering on their plan and these lines will be heavily supported even more as they move further into design. That vendetta agaisnt those who roadblocked his brother is a real thing and for that reason i fully expect him to want to deliver and prove them wrong.

Who knows how long Ford will be Premier but if he gets re-elected he has certainly set things up to go down possibly as the Premier who deliver some most important transit infrastructure in the City and has laid out a plan local residents will likely support heavily on timelines for maximum political gain. The delay sucks but nothing compared to the nonsense with the one stop subway and council Lefts protection efforts of Transit City. This could end up being a huge win-win on many fronts of transit infrastructure (only) and many wont want to admit it if it happens . Conservative populism at work.

Heads could continue to spin as these lines move forward

 

[BurlOak]

Who knows how long Ford will be Premier in 2022 or beyond but if he gets re-elected he has certainly set things up to go down possibly as the Premier who deliver some most important transit infrastructure in the City and has laid out a plan local residents will likely support heavily on timelines for maximum political gain. The delay sucks but this could end up being a huge win-win and many wont want to admit it if it happens.

Heads could continue to spin as these lines move forward

So if history is any indication, the opposition will do everything possible to derail Ford's plans.
It doesn't matter if it delays transit construction for years or more. It doesn't matter if it adds Billions of dollars to the bill. They will use every trick they can to ruin transit. This includes legal challenges, getting their media friends on board, and harassing any supporters. The only goal of any importance for this resistance will be to stop Ford at all costs.