saveoursubways (SOS)

[Juan_Lennon416]

So if you want a subway to MCC, would the route be west along Dundas Street and then north on Hurontario Street? If so, Dundas between Hwy 427 and Hurontario has nothing to warrant a subway.

 

[kEiThZ]

For the purposes of the plan, I see no need for debate. Put it in. We need to get moving here. Down the road, some politician can decide what to hack.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I look forward to reviewing your plan, more specifically your strong arguments for a subway to MCC

 

[kEiThZ]

I suggest y'all check in to the group and have a look at the rough breakdown of the lengths of each subway. That may help us decide what to prioritize.

 

[kEiThZ]

I look forward to reviewing your plan, more specifically your strong arguments for a subway to MCC

Heck, I'd do it for political expediency. If we have to cut a deal with Mississauga, just to get an extension to Sherway, so be it. We had to build a station on the 407 to get an extension to York U. What's different about this?

 

[gweed123]

If there's an train from Kipling to MCC that only takes 10 minutes, why would anyone want to use the subway ... unless they were travelling to intermediate stops between Kipling and MCC ... though the demand for those intermediate stops seemed pretty low when they last looked at it.

A subway, in addition to an express train, the transitway, the Dundas BRT/LRT, the Watfront West LRT to Port Credit, and the regional express services to MCC, Cooksville, and Lakeshore East seems like overkill.

What you're seeming to miss is that the GO service doesnt go to MCC. Cooksville GO station is 1.5 km from Square One. And if you think that that station is going to be moved to better service Square One, you're dreaming even more than people who want a subway are dreaming.

Have you driven down Hurontario lately? The section from Eglinton to Cooksville GO is almost like driving on Yonge St between Sheppard and Finch. It's the densest corridor and area outside of the City of Toronto in the entire GTA!

And I find the argument of "well there isn't much along Dundas, so there's no sense in building a subway there" to be quite dubious. Yes, I agree, on it's own there isn't much to warrant a subway, but none of the major E-W corridors between the 427 and Hurontario have much on them to warrant a subway. But the fact of the matter is that Hurontario needs one, so might as well pick a corridor that has good opportunities for densification to get it there. Remember, there isn't much along the Scarborough RT route between Kennedy and STC, yet the line is still very well used.

And it would be the City of Mississauga and Metrolinx paying for the line, once it passes Sherway it's out of Toronto's hands in terms of capital funding.

There is also no reason why even if the subway is there, people couldn't choose to get off at the Cooksville stop and take the GO train from there, if they really wanted a faster route downtown.

 

[sixrings]

Big difference is this part of the 905 does NOT want to contribute to a subway. Hazel wants BRT maybe a LRT but no way do they want to help finance a Subway. HAzel runs this town. So until shes wearing all black everything and burried in the grown. You can pledge your allegiance to never getting a Subway to MCC>

 

[kettal]

What you're seeming to miss is that the GO service doesnt go to MCC. Cooksville GO station is 1.5 km from Square One. And if you think that that station is going to be moved to better service Square One, you're dreaming even more than people who want a subway are dreaming.

I say MCC needs to grow south towards the station. Plenty of people walk the 1.5 km from Union station to their workplace in downtown Toronto...

 

[nfitz]

What you're seeming to miss is that the GO service doesnt go to MCC.

What you seem to have missed is that what we were discussing was the Metrolinx proposal to build a rail connection from Cooksville to MCC, and operate a frequent express train between MCC and Union.

 

[gweed123]

I say MCC needs to grow south towards the station. Plenty of people walk the 1.5 km from Union station to their workplace in downtown Toronto...

...in underground walkways and the like. And FYI, 1.5 km up from Union is Gerrard St. The financial district is significantly less than that. And the measurement of 1.5 km was to the closest part of Square One, not City Hall or anything.

 

[gweed123]

What you seem to have missed is that what we were discussing was the Metrolinx proposal to build a rail connection from Cooksville to MCC, and operate a frequent express train between MCC and Union.

From what I see in the report, they propose running express rail from Cooksville to Union, and rapid transit (LRT or BRT) along Hurontario from Brampton to Port Credit. I don't see anything there about "express train service between MCC and Union". MCC and Cooksville are not the same thing. They are barely within a reasonable walking distance of eachother (like I said earlier, 1.5 km).

A person wanting to go from Square One to Union would still need to transfer at Cooksville to get downtown, and as it is currently, pay 2 fares. If it were a subway run by the TTC, it would be a transfer at either Dundas West, St. George, or B-Y, and only 1 fare.

And like I said earlier, a subway extension to SQ1 doesn't exclude the possibility of express rail to Cooksville, they serve 2 different trip patterns.

 

[Dan416]

I look forward to reviewing your plan, more specifically your strong arguments for a subway to MCC

I'd like to hear your strong arguments that say a subway to MCC is not needed.

 

[kettal]

I'd like to hear your strong arguments that say a subway to MCC is not needed.

Too easy.

Frequent GO service will be able to move more people, faster, to any destination east of Dixie, and will be cheaper to construct.

The only riders who would choose the subway instead, in such a situation... well I can't imagine any reason somebody would, tbh.

 

[Second_in_pie]

What you're seeming to miss is that the GO service doesnt go to MCC. Cooksville GO station is 1.5 km from Square One. And if you think that that station is going to be moved to better service Square One, you're dreaming even more than people who want a subway are dreaming.

Have you driven down Hurontario lately? The section from Eglinton to Cooksville GO is almost like driving on Yonge St between Sheppard and Finch. It's the densest corridor and area outside of the City of Toronto in the entire GTA!

And I find the argument of "well there isn't much along Dundas, so there's no sense in building a subway there" to be quite dubious. Yes, I agree, on it's own there isn't much to warrant a subway, but none of the major E-W corridors between the 427 and Hurontario have much on them to warrant a subway. But the fact of the matter is that Hurontario needs one, so might as well pick a corridor that has good opportunities for densification to get it there. Remember, there isn't much along the Scarborough RT route between Kennedy and STC, yet the line is still very well used.

And it would be the City of Mississauga and Metrolinx paying for the line, once it passes Sherway it's out of Toronto's hands in terms of capital funding.

There is also no reason why even if the subway is there, people couldn't choose to get off at the Cooksville stop and take the GO train from there, if they really wanted a faster route downtown.

This is the one thing that I'm actually skeptical about the Bloor extension. I mean, it'd probably be a lot easier to reroute the Milton Line underground, wouldn't it? I'd elevate the Milton line with the Bloor extension to Sherway, then keep the Milton line running to Dixie. Then run it under Dundas, breaking to go up to MCC. There, it'll turn west on the 403 corridor to merge back onto the current Milton corridor.

I guess that if a local service was really required on Dundas, it could make sense to stack the tunnel/tracks, but I really don't see the need. I think that if that kind of regional service was in, a TC-Style LRT really would suffice. Sherway-bound riders originating in Mississauga would go to Dixie or any stations west. Sherway-bound riders originating in Toronto could take the B-D to Sherway, or take the Milton line from some new station, or if it was merged into a midtown line.

If that happened, Kipling station on the Milton line could be moved to Islington, and a new station could be created for both lines at Sherway. It might take some money (ok, a lot of money,) but I think it'd be worth it once you look at the regional benefits and real need.

 

[kEiThZ]

For SOS purposes it can be included in the plan because Toronto is not paying for it. If Mississauga ever decided to step up, they can pursue whatever connection to the subway they want. They could have a Sherway-Square One subway or take it down Dundas, etc.. The point is to have it in the plan to show what's possible.