saveoursubways (SOS)

[kEiThZ]

Options for Mississauga have been talked to death here:

http://www.urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=8962&highlight=Mississauga

No need to rehash that over here.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Mayor Hazel McCallion wants to build BRTs and maybe LRTs, not subways. I am very sure she would reject a subway to MCC immediately. You guys could put the idea of a subway to MCC in your proposal but I do not think it would do any good

 

[Rainforest]

Have you driven down Hurontario lately? The section from Eglinton to Cooksville GO is almost like driving on Yonge St between Sheppard and Finch. It's the densest corridor and area outside of the City of Toronto in the entire GTA!

And I find the argument of "well there isn't much along Dundas, so there's no sense in building a subway there" to be quite dubious. Yes, I agree, on it's own there isn't much to warrant a subway, but none of the major E-W corridors between the 427 and Hurontario have much on them to warrant a subway. But the fact of the matter is that Hurontario needs one, so might as well pick a corridor that has good opportunities for densification to get it there. Remember, there isn't much along the Scarborough RT route between Kennedy and STC, yet the line is still very well used.

Then, wouldn't it be more useful to build subway under Hurontario, and divert GO Express from Cooksville to SQ1 (instead of Bloor subway extension)?

 

[kEiThZ]

Again, let's leave the Mississauga discussion to the Mississauga thread. For the sake of the SOS plan, its included with the caveat that Mississauga will determine the routing, and provided funding.

 

[Fresh Start]

... right, tell that to East York.

You're joking right? What are the subways stop at Laird, Leslie, OSC, Flemingdon, Thorncliffe, O'Connor, Mortimer and the Danforth then; chopped liver?

 

[Fresh Start]

Then, wouldn't it be more useful to build subway under Hurontario, and divert GO Express from Cooksville to SQ1 (instead of Bloor subway extension)?

Hurontario most definitely should be in a subway between Lakeshore Blvd and Eglinton then at-grade thereafter. I've suggested here before that we could have a wye at Cooksville Stn whereby a set of LRT tracks are routed beside the train tracks to connect to the Bloor-Danforth subway at Sherway Gdns or Dixie-Dundas. I don't think tunneling the GO corridor through SQ1 is the answer though, too disruptive for minimal gains.

 

[Dan416]

Too easy.

Frequent GO service will be able to move more people, faster, to any destination east of Dixie, and will be cheaper to construct.

The only riders who would choose the subway instead, in such a situation... well I can't imagine any reason somebody would, tbh.

Um, because GO doesn't GO where they're GOING? Not everyone's destination is Kipling or Union.

And also because it doesn't serve, um, Mississauga City Centre, which is what we're talking about?

God talking to you Mississauga bashers is harder than bringing the mountain to Mohammed.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

God talking to you Mississauga bashers is harder than bringing the mountain to Mohammed.

What are you talking about? No one is bashing Mississauga

 

[nfitz]

You're joking right? What are the subways stop at Laird, Leslie, OSC, Flemingdon, Thorncliffe, O'Connor, Mortimer and the Danforth then; chopped liver?

What stops are these? The plan I was criticizing above was Sheppard East, Kennedy to STC, and Pape to Union. None of these enter East York, or provide any new stations near East York.

And then there is anyone west of Yonge.

 

[Dan416]

What are you talking about? No one is bashing Mississauga

I consider the implication that MCC doesn't deserve a subway to be a symptom of Mississauga-bashing. It indicates an ignorance about Mississauga which is just as bad as Mississaugaphobia, which Torontophiles exhibit in abundance, especially on this forum, in contrast to mostly apathy from Torontonians in real life.

Somehow regional rail and subway systems can coexist in other cities, but mention subway to Square One and Torontonians have a conniption.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I consider the implication that MCC doesn't deserve a subway to be a symptom of Mississauga-bashing. It indicates an ignorance about Mississauga which is just as bad as Mississaugaphobia, which Torontophiles exhibit in abundance, especially on this forum, in contrast to mostly apathy from Torontonians in real life.

Somehow regional rail and subway systems can coexist in other cities, but mention subway to Square One and Torontonians have a conniption.

Are you serious? Just because we believe a cheaper mode of transit can handle the demand from Toronto to MCC means we are bashing Mississauga? Seriously?

 

[gweed123]

What stops are these? The plan I was criticizing above was Sheppard East, Kennedy to STC, and Pape to Union. None of these enter East York, or provide any new stations near East York.

And then there is anyone west of Yonge.

So you pick specifics aspects of the plan, ignoring the rest of the plan completely, and claim that it doesn't serve East York?

The DRL is going to Eglinton (serving Flemington Park, etc), and the Eglinton subway is going to the Science Centre. I'd say that's pretty good coverage of East York...

 

[gweed123]

Are you serious? Just because we believe a cheaper mode of transit can handle the demand from Toronto to MCC means we are bashing Mississauga? Seriously?

Claiming that Cooksville will provide direct service to MCC is like claiming that Agincourt GO provides direct service to STC (and yes, they are very close to the same distance in both scenarios). STC is getting 2, count em, 2 subways to it. There is a higher population base, a bigger retail base, and more significant City buildings at MCC than at STC, so why doesn't MCC warrant 1 subway to it? What makes STC so much 'holier than thou' that it requires 2 subways, but MCC can make due with just a GO station nearly 2 km away, and a BRT or LRT connecting them?

And just an additional note: MCC is only 4.5 km further away from Union via subway than STC is. Apparently 4.5 km more is the dividing line between being a perfectly acceptable subway trip and being too long to bare.

 

[nfitz]

So you pick specifics aspects of the plan, ignoring the rest of the plan completely, and claim that it doesn't serve East York?

The DRL is going to Eglinton (serving Flemington Park, etc), and the Eglinton subway is going to the Science Centre. I'd say that's pretty good coverage of East York...

Well that might be your plan, but I was responding directly to Coruscanti Cognoscente who said "i think everyone is in agreement about most of our priorities. 1. Sheppard East LRT should be upgraded to a continuation of the Sheppard Subway to STC (and possibly to Downsview) 2. Danforth to STC 3. DRL Phase I (Union to Pape)"

It was this I was criticising. It doesn't mention Eglinton; it doesn't mention Flemington Park, it doesn't even mention Flemingdon Park. It doesn't mention the Science Centre. Please pay attention.

 

[gweed123]

Well that might be your plan, but I was responding directly to Coruscanti Cognoscente who said "i think everyone is in agreement about most of our priorities. 1. Sheppard East LRT should be upgraded to a continuation of the Sheppard Subway to STC (and possibly to Downsview) 2. Danforth to STC 3. DRL Phase I (Union to Pape)"

It was this I was criticising. It doesn't mention Eglinton; it doesn't mention Flemington Park, it doesn't even mention Flemingdon Park. It doesn't mention the Science Centre. Please pay attention.

I did not specifically see that part, I appologize.

However, even with those priorities, East York will still get service with this plan, it just may not be in the first phase (but in the group forum we have posted estimates on cost, and it looks like we'll be able to include the DRL northeast to SC, as well as the Eglinton line from Pearson to SC... so East York will go from having 1 subway in it to having 3).