Rob Ford's Toronto

[Jimmi T]

This is why, like, some people seem to think the police (possibly up to and including Blair) never really wanted to nail him for anything and are perfectly happy that his mayoral loss and the cancer have given them the cover to back out quietly. I don't buy it. This was all too public and there is too much documented crime for them to be anything less than embarrassed by all the time (and, yes, money) they spent investigating it without so much as a DUI to show for it. Maybe they still think they can get Lisi to roll or they're saving a nice present for when Rob is fully-recovered from surgery but I find it hard to believe that (aside from the dirty people protecting the Fords) anyone at TPS, including the retiring chief, is happy the big fish got away.

They for sure have been trying to get Ford. That plea deal Sandro turned down for one year in jail--I heard that came with the stipulation that he testify against Ford.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

The point isn't to like it, the point is to threaten war if your drive time into downtown is in any way delayed or inconvenienced! And to make downtown elitists pay for your improved access. I live 6 blocs from the stench at City Hall and have watched my friends and neighbours give up their cars and switch to public transit because of road congestion, then switch to bikes because of transit congestion, then switch to walking because it seemed safer and faster. Now pedestrians are getting hit by cars, transit vehicles and bikes at an alarming rate and the narrow sidewalks are totally congested. I blame the developers and the unaccountable OMB. Real estate is TO's tar sands and we are already having to clean up the "collateral damage".

Oookkkaayyy....

 

[animatronic]

They for sure have been trying to get Ford. That plea deal Sandro turned down for one year in jail--I heard that came with the stipulation that he testify against Ford.

And hence the problem - the ITO certainly lays out a pile of circumstantial evidence against Ford and direct evidence against Lisi. If it were enough for a conviction then Ford would have been charged by now. The decision to let Ford off the hook from testifying is curious, but perhaps they don't think they need it - one assumes that they will take another crack at turning Lisi now that the prelim is out of the way and his lawyers can assess his chances.

 

[nohostages]

They for sure have been trying to get Ford. That plea deal Sandro turned down for one year in jail--I heard that came with the stipulation that he testify against Ford.

Thanks Jimmi. I have been wondering what the dynamics of that part of it truly are. I once cracked that we'll know if pumpkin and rofo are still secretly friendly by the price of the lawyer who shows up in muskoka to do her defence. (By my own theory they had cut her loose. Her rep was a low rent local guy.) Those UTers who attended some of Lisi's preliminary hearing must have gotten a feel for how costly his lawyer must be. I think speculating about the cost of a lawyer could be outside the publication bans' reach. How bout it guys, did Lisi's lawyer seem like someone Lisi could afford without fordian assistance?

 

[JWBF]

They for sure have been trying to get Ford. That plea deal Sandro turned down for one year in jail--I heard that came with the stipulation that he testify against Ford.

All this damage will not sway the "The Followers" unfortunately; however, there is the "In bed with a live boy or dead girl." situations we may not know about that may still come to light.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

And hence the problem - the ITO certainly lays out a pile of circumstantial evidence against Ford and direct evidence against Lisi. If it were enough for a conviction then Ford would have been charged by now. The decision to let Ford off the hook from testifying is curious, but perhaps they don't think they need it - one assumes that they will take another crack at turning Lisi now that the prelim is out of the way and his lawyers can assess his chances.

Ford only got out of testifying at the preliminary hearing. It's not THAT weird; they had enough evidence to go to trial and there wasn't any real advantage to waiting until September at that point. (The fact that Ford is out there, composing budget press releases and stumping outdoors in the cold for Christine Elliot is surely bad optics but, whether or not they "believed" the doctors' note, clearly they decided to pick their battles.)

I'm sure they would have liked to trip him up there somehow but it doesn't mean he's gotten out of being called to the stand in a trial. Given how terrible we know he is on the stand, I think it's just as well to throw him up there at trial. He won't have had the "practice" of the hearing and, unlike the hearing, his testimony will be public. I think it will be cringeworthy, like a really good episode of the BBC version of the Office.

I always assumed they told Lisi he could get a break if he testified against Ford. Obviously the Fords have given him money or he otherwise fears/loves them enough to stick it out. It's baffling to me, since he's clearly a low-level guy about to get nailed and I guess he could change his mind any time but one certainly has to be curious about how far down the Ford road the Crown will lead him. (Obviously at this point the media has a good chunk of evidence. I wouldn't be surprised to hear they all have the crack tape at this point.)

 

[dforthandbview]

did Lisi's lawyer seem like someone Lisi could afford without fordian assistance?

Lisi's parents had a house of theirs on the market a couple of years ago (the house was mentioned in the ITO). Not sure if it was sold but if it was I'm wondering if the money was used to pay for Lisi's lawyers, one of whom is Seth Weinstein, a high profile lawyer and one that, I would imagine, comes with a high price tag.

 

[animatronic]

Ford only got out of testifying at the preliminary hearing. It's not THAT weird; they had enough evidence to go to trial and there wasn't any real advantage to waiting until September at that point. (The fact that Ford is out there, composing budget press releases and stumping outdoors in the cold for Christine Elliot is surely bad optics but, whether or not they "believed" the doctors' note, clearly they decided to pick their battles.)

I'm sure they would have liked to trip him up there somehow but it doesn't mean he's gotten out of being called to the stand in a trial. Given how terrible we know he is on the stand, I think it's just as well to throw him up there at trial. He won't have had the "practice" of the hearing and, unlike the hearing, his testimony will be public. I think it will be cringeworthy, like a really good episode of the BBC version of the Office.

I always assumed they told Lisi he could get a break if he testified against Ford. Obviously the Fords have given him money or he otherwise fears/loves them enough to stick it out. It's baffling to me, since he's clearly a low-level guy about to get nailed and I guess he could change his mind any time but one certainly has to be curious about how far down the Ford road the Crown will lead him. (Obviously at this point the media has a good chunk of evidence. I wouldn't be surprised to hear they all have the crack tape at this point.)

It is on the public record that the media have been granted access to certain exhibits from the prelim. So there's that.

It is baffling that Lisi continues to protect Ford. He should know by now that every single person who has gotten in the way of Ford Co. has been thrown under the bus (camper van?). You can't buy loyalty, but you can certainly cash it in when it's no longer needed. We all know this will happen to Lisi eventually, and if he stays quiet he'll likely have lots of extra time in jail to mull it over.

 

[dforthandbview]

It's really too bad the police didn't have Lisi's or Ford's phone wiretapped when the flurry of phone calls were happening around the time when the crack video story broke.
I'm curious as to how key figures of the mafia were brought down. For instance, John Gotti. Was there public knowledge that he was being investigated and then a year or two or whatever later he was finally arrested? I'll look into that.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

It is baffling that Lisi continues to protect Ford. He should know by now that every single person who has gotten in the way of Ford Co. has been thrown under the bus (camper van?). You can't buy loyalty, but you can certainly cash it in when it's no longer needed. We all know this will happen to Lisi eventually, and if he stays quiet he'll likely have lots of extra time in jail to mull it over.

Unless there is a worse fate than being in jail as the fall guy? I don't think we have considered all the potential levers.

AoD

 

[kaboi]

Like Taverner? I heard a while back that Blair had concerns about him feeding info back to the Fords and confronted him about it. Taverner insisted he wasn't telling them anything.

Because if Taverner HAD been feeding info back, he would have owned up on the spot, obviously.

 

[Jimmi T]

Because if Taverner HAD been feeding info back, he would have owned up on the spot, obviously.

Obviously not but I guess Blair tried to read him and believed him.

 

[kaboi]

And hence the problem - the ITO certainly lays out a pile of circumstantial evidence against Ford and direct evidence against Lisi. If it were enough for a conviction then Ford would have been charged by now. The decision to let Ford off the hook from testifying is curious, but perhaps they don't think they need it - one assumes that they will take another crack at turning Lisi now that the prelim is out of the way and his lawyers can assess his chances.

Actually, Ford would likely have been charged by now if not for Blair's foolish decision to respond to Ford's wasted patois rant. If he hadn't done that, and just stuck to his "without fear or favour" key message, he could have laid charges and looked heroic doing so. But since he didn't, he had to kick it over to the OPP where clearly fear or favour did matter.

Any attempt to get Lisi to turn at this point is to salvage Blair's error and show something for the investigation. I certainly don't see any of this as a vendetta against Ford, and never have. He was the mayor of a city who was found through wiretaps to be hanging out with gang members, who had his phone recovered in exchange for a pound of weed, and whose "friends" the Bassos were beat up just days after the crack scandal broke. If the police DIDN'T start an investigation, then I'd have been concerned.

 

[the lemur]

Lisi's parents had a house of theirs on the market a couple of years ago (the house was mentioned in the ITO). Not sure if it was sold but if it was I'm wondering if the money was used to pay for Lisi's lawyers, one of whom is Seth Weinstein, a high profile lawyer and one that, I would imagine, comes with a high price tag.

Apparently it didn't sell and was taken off the market.

 

[Jimmi T]

Actually, Ford would likely have been charged by now if not for Blair's foolish decision to respond to Ford's wasted patois rant. If he hadn't done that, and just stuck to his "without fear or favour" key message, he could have laid charges and looked heroic doing so. But since he didn't, he had to kick it over to the OPP where clearly fear or favour did matter.

Any attempt to get Lisi to turn at this point is to salvage Blair's error and show something for the investigation. I certainly don't see any of this as a vendetta against Ford, and never have. He was the mayor of a city who was found through wiretaps to be hanging out with gang members, who had his phone recovered in exchange for a pound of weed, and whose "friends" the Bassos were beat up just days after the crack scandal broke. If the police DIDN'T start an investigation, then I'd have been concerned.

I'm not sure how it works, but apparently TPS pushed repeatedly for charges against Ford but it was the Crown that was reluctant to move forward.