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Rob Ford's Toronto

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JTheElfMan said:
http://www.reactiongifs.com/popcorn-gifs/
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th_popcorncat.gif
 
A couple of hours ago someone on Reddit posted "I heard from a friend at TPS just now he will be charged tomorrow. Lets hope his 9 lives have been used up."

Pass me the popcorn.
 
Lansdude said:
Take another 2000 words to explain why it isn't a big deal if the mayor smokes crack, is suspiciously close to a MURDER victim, drives drunk, lies on a consistent basis, shuts the media out, verbally assaults people, wanders the streets shitfaced, demonstrates no understanding of transit planning, antagonizes half the city, can't form a complete sentence, and consorts with a constellation of confirmed low-lifes, as long as he says he's committed to not raising taxes, even if he does so anyway. You've done a really bang up job of showing how a human mind can justify anything as long as it identifies with the ideology it gives lip service to. I'm curious, if Ford IS charged with a crime, will you still testify to his fitness for mayor? If he were incarcerated while holding the mayor's seat and it were possible to run the city from prison, would you still support him?

I'm curious, are you into Ayn Rand? Because you leave that autistic true believer impression.

You're done here. So is your disgrace of a representative. Ignore.
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ThinkRicky said:
CowboyLogic has repeatedly demonstrated that he is a disingenuous hack, no purpose can be served by addressing him directly as he has shown he is nearly incapable of arguing in good faith. Anyone who follows this thread with any regularity, who keeps up with what is reported from the various media outlets, and still would throw their support behind Ford (A man whose proffesional and personal associations in and outside the criminal world show that his interests do not align with those of the average working class stiff he claims to represent) qualifies as a selfish, gullible asshole whose opinions and worldview should be viewed with suspicion and contempt.
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Yeah, anyone who is informed and supports Ford is a selfish gullible asshole! And anyone else who supports Ford is just uninformed and stupid. Half of Toronto are stupid selfish gullible assholes!

The reality is...you two are whats wrong with politics and political discourse today. You're the left-wing equivalents of the Tea Party lunatics who label anyone they disagree with socialists. Its especially interesting that on a site where there is constant bemoaning of the divisions in politics, you are both incapable of actually discussing an issue without delving into name-calling.

I'm the one who can't argue in good faith? You can't have a political discussion without resorting to ad hominems attacks and cheap rhetoric. At the end of the day, I don't think I've maliciously attacked anybody on here. I've admitted I'm wrong several times. I've criticized Ford on several counts. I've admitted when I've been ignorant of something, and asked for clarification in those instances. Given this, I find it amusing that I'm the "hack", the "disingenuous" one who "can't argue in good faith", and, in particular, the "asshole".
 
The reason I started posting on UT in the first place was because it seemed like a place where people were having intelligent discussions about municipal politics and the issues surrounding Ford. Obviously this site skewed anti-Ford, but it seemed like a place for rational respectful discourse on a higher level then what you'd see on Twitter/Reddit/Facebook.

Now, this is true of a lot of the posters here, and I've learned a lot from some of these people (I know everyone hated that gross operating budget stuff, but it was interesting for me to learn about the exact distinctions between the gross and the net budget, and the implications of that). I've also had my own views challenged, and I've had a lot of interesting discussions about Ford and Toronto.

That being said, from the beginning, there has been a large contingent that has made it clear they have no interest in actually discussing these issues, intelligently or not. Anyone that disagrees with them is stupid, evil or whatever other ad hominem they can throw out. Instead of actually engaging in discussions or even arguments, these are the people who accuse any Ford supporters of being paid operatives, David Price, shill accounts, etc, etc. Now its devolved into name-calling: autistic (which is bordering on offensive), Ann Rand (who I've never read), selfish asshole, stupid, etc, etc, etc. These people pretty much want an echo chamber for their own views, and I find it interesting how its only the people actually not discussing the issues who throw the "stupid" labels at others. I also find it interesting that on a site where one of the main discussion topics is the divisions and vitriol in the city, that these people actively avoid actually discussing political issues and engage in mud-slinging instead.

At this point, it seems like this latter contingent makes up the majority of the posts and, unfortunately, is the majority of what I end up responding to now. Right from my first post, I've tried to be diligent in being courteous and respectful, because I knew that, as someone who supports Ford, I'd have to be extra careful to not come across as combative or give any reason for being banned. I do think that I've posted here respectfully, and I don't think anyone can find one single instance where I haven't. I think that I've admitted when I'm wrong, ignorant or unsure of something as much as any other poster here.

Now, I know someone's going to say I'm looking for sympathy, and I'm not, because this is a message board. I'm just saying that I didn't come here to be called an "asshole" - I came here because I actually wanted to discuss these issues in greater detail, which unfortunately hasn't been happening too much anymore. Anyway, I love to discuss politics, but I hate Internet pissing matches and personal attacks - that's the whole reason I started posting here in the first place.
 
While I am as eager as anyone to find out what the police have in store, questioning/ charging the mayor on Thanksgiving--if that is indeed what's happening--seems less than optimal. It would become yet another talking point for the Fords' boundless sense of victimhood; 'those leftie cops won't even let me spend the holiday with my family, how dare they come to my home' etc etc. better to do this at City Hall on a workday, to the extent he is ever actually there of course.
 
CowboyLogic said:
The reason I started posting on UT in the first place was because it seemed like a place where people were having intelligent discussions about municipal politics and the issues surrounding Ford. Obviously this site skewed anti-Ford, but it seemed like a place for rational respectful discourse on a higher level then what you'd see on Twitter/Reddit/Facebook.

Now, this is true of a lot of the posters here, and I've learned a lot from some of these people (I know everyone hated that gross operating budget stuff, but it was interesting for me to learn about the exact distinctions between the gross and the net budget, and the implications of that). I've also had my own views challenged, and I've had a lot of interesting discussions about Ford and Toronto.

That being said, from the beginning, there has been a large contingent that has made it clear they have no interest in actually discussing these issues, intelligently or not. Anyone that disagrees with them is stupid, evil or whatever other ad hominem they can throw out. Instead of actually engaging in discussions or even arguments, these are the people who accuse any Ford supporters of being paid operatives, David Price, shill accounts, etc, etc. Now its devolved into name-calling: autistic (which is bordering on offensive), Ann Rand (who I've never read), selfish asshole, stupid, etc, etc, etc. These people pretty much want an echo chamber for their own views, and I find it interesting how its only the people actually not discussing the issues who throw the "stupid" labels at others. I also find it interesting that on a site where one of the main discussion topics is the divisions and vitriol in the city, that these people actively avoid actually discussing political issues and engage in mud-slinging instead.

At this point, it seems like this latter contingent makes up the majority of the posts and, unfortunately, is the majority of what I end up responding to now. Right from my first post, I've tried to be diligent in being courteous and respectful, because I knew that, as someone who supports Ford, I'd have to be extra careful to not come across as combative or give any reason for being banned. I do think that I've posted here respectfully, and I don't think anyone can find one single instance where I haven't. I think that I've admitted when I'm wrong, ignorant or unsure of something as much as any other poster here.

Now, I know someone's going to say I'm looking for sympathy, and I'm not, because this is a message board. I'm just saying that I didn't come here to be called an "asshole" - I came here because I actually wanted to discuss these issues in greater detail, which unfortunately hasn't been happening too much anymore. Anyway, I love to discuss politics, but I hate Internet pissing matches and personal attacks - that's the whole reason I started posting here in the first place.
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Again: you write like this is designed.

wengleforesthill.jpg


And you write like someone (for the sake of hypothesis, let's say: the owner/builder of said home) engaging in an endless "explain to me" argument over domestic aesthetics here.
 
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CowboyLogic said:
Anyway, I love to discuss politics, but I hate Internet pissing matches and personal attacks - that's the whole reason I started posting here in the first place.
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You hate ad hominem attacks and Internet pissing matches, but it's cool for you to claim that I said the opposite of what I did and then "assume" that I don't live in Toronto or own my home?

The fact is, I would love to have a discussion with a Ford supporter who is capable of intelligent discussion and doesn't fall back on blind support. You flatter yourself by thinking that you fall into that category.
 
allabootmatt said:
While I am as eager as anyone to find out what the police have in store, questioning/ charging the mayor on Thanksgiving--if that is indeed what's happening--seems less than optimal. It would become yet another talking point for the Fords' boundless sense of victimhood; 'those leftie cops won't even let me spend the holiday with my family, how dare they come to my home' etc etc. better to do this at City Hall on a workday, to the extent he is ever actually there of course.
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Unless of course the charges are extremely serious and they have him so dead to rights that the timing won't matter when the public learns what he's been accused of.
 
Lansdude said:
Right, that's why these labels are so treacherous. It's whatever people choose to call themselves. Just witness how the word "liberal" has transformed over hundreds of years - it has a historicity. Almost everything that "conservatives" believe now were values that were explicitly liberal at some point.
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On this point, can we now please admit that Rob Ford is a "tax and spend liberal"?

Both taxes and spending are highervthan they ever were under the "socialist" David Miller.
 
Nothing is going to come from going after him for robocalling.

It's only going to make people support him more like whenhe was attacked over his fundraising for football.
 
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