News   May 14, 2021
 2.5K     0 
News   May 14, 2021
 523     0 
News   May 14, 2021
 2.1K     2 

Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

gweed123

Moderator
Staff member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
7,736
Reaction score
1,331
Location
Burlington
Some of the worst examples are Highway 9 - which still exists in two separate sections as the section between Harriston and Orangeville was downloaded, and Highway 3, which is now three separate sections (Fort Erie to St. Thomas, but not including the section through Port Colborne, and between Leamington and Windsor).

I'd like, most of all, for Highways 2 (as the alternate to the 401), 3, 4 (at least to Highway 10), 7, 9, 11B (in Timiskaming), 17 (east of Ottawa), 19, 21 (south of Highway 402), 24 (Cambridge to Caledon, if not all the way back to Collingwood), 28 (Port Hope-Highway 115), 33, 27, 59, 67 in Timmins, 86, and 121 between Minden and Haliburton to be fully restored. I don't care who maintains them, but a "maintained by ______" tab underneath the highway shield if necessary.

Highway 7 is probably okay through Brampton and York Region without restored signage (though I'd argue it should still continue through to Highway 410 in Brampton from the west, instead of abruptly in Norval), but it should be restored westward to Sarnia.

Many other routes, like Highway 18 south of Windsor, Highway 22 near London, Highway 76 in West Lorne, the southern section of Highway 121 (though Kinmount), Highway 93 between Highway 11 and Highway 400, made sense to download. Highway 11 probably didn't need to exist anymore south of Barrie. But there were too many important through routes and connecting highways that were thrown away without any planning in the Harris fire sale era.

Agreed completely. I think if the former King's Highway serves an important backup route for a 400-series highway (ex: Highway 2 like you mentioned), then it should be continuously signed as such. Ditto for downloaded regional roads that connect 2 sections of still Provincially-signed highways (like Highway 7). I've tried to drive both Highways 2 and 7 for much of their route, and in a lot of cases following the signage is quite difficult, especially when the highway has been upgraded post-download. An example of this is Highway 7 through Guelph and through Brampton. What a mess. As for Highway 17, the only section that isn't signed as such is Highway 174 in Ottawa. Once it hits Prescott-Russell, it becomes 17 again (Provincially signed). I do agree that keeping the stubs of highways within urban areas signed as Provincial highways (ex: Highway 11 in Toronto) may be a bit redundant though.

Ideally, I'd like to see all of Highways 2, 3, 7, and 9 restored to Provincial signage, even if the maintenance remains with the municipalities.
 

gweed123

Moderator
Staff member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
7,736
Reaction score
1,331
Location
Burlington
Hwy 7 through Guelph hasn't been downloaded; it's a provincial highway from London to Georgetown.

That is true, but the highway has been rerouted and bypassed many times through Guelph. After coming off the Hanlon heading EB, it goes on a pretty minor street for a stretch. Hopefully once the new Highway 7 is built between Kitchener and Guelph this will change, and it will be placed back onto a more major route.
 

ShonTron

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
10,620
Reaction score
4,104
Location
Ward 13 - Toronto Centre
As for Highway 17, the only section that isn't signed as such is Highway 174 in Ottawa. Once it hits Prescott-Russell, it becomes 17 again (Provincially signed). I do agree that keeping the stubs of highways within urban areas signed as Provincial highways (ex: Highway 11 in Toronto) may be a bit redundant though.

Not true. It's signed as Route 174 in Ottawa (through Orleans and Cumberland), and it is Prescott & Russell County Road 17 until it meets Highway 417 again near the Quebec border.
 

innsertnamehere

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
15,225
Reaction score
10,804
yup the provincial portion ends in Arnprior. They really should extend the 417 up to Pembroke anyway, that is where it "should" end.

48 between Beaverton and Coboconk and 169 should be added to that list of restorations as well if you ask me.
 

ShonTron

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
10,620
Reaction score
4,104
Location
Ward 13 - Toronto Centre
yup the provincial portion ends in Arnprior. They really should extend the 417 up to Pembroke anyway, that is where it "should" end.

48 between Beaverton and Coboconk and 169 should be added to that list of restorations as well if you ask me.

Yes, definitely Highway 48 east of Beaverton, maybe even Highway 47 (but not Highway 46, which made sense as a download). Highway 169, yes. It should extend to include old Highway 69 from Foot's Bay up to Seguin Township as well. Old Highway 69 remains provincially maintained, though it's now called Lake Joseph Road and is now a 7000-series highway.
 

innsertnamehere

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
15,225
Reaction score
10,804
don't see the need for 47, it serves no real purpose today. Stouffville and Uxbridge have grown so much that they have "swallowed" the highway. There is no real utility of a provincial highway running from Stouffville to Uxbridge (as the urban portions would be municipally owned), and then a little stump over to 12 after Uxbridge. The only way it may work is if you uploaded Bloomington Road from the 404 to 47 and relabeled it 47, even though it has never been a provincial highway, and then just justify it as 47 being a provincial highway access to Uxbridge / a connector to Highway 12 from the 404..

Mind you I also don't understand the utility of Highway 48 south of Ravenshoe road anymore either, the 404 has replaced its utility. If you ask me they should extend the 404 to Sutton to connect with 48 and then download 48 south of there.
 

innsertnamehere

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
15,225
Reaction score
10,804
thought about it a bit more, this is what the provincial network should look like in the area if you ask me. The big "hole" is Brooklin, which cuts off 12 from proper access to a 400 series highway. I guess its not that big of a gap to the 407 extension..

If 47 is reinstated, it should really eat up Goodwood road and Bloomington, which are both busy regional corridors, albeit they have never been provincial highways. 47 essentially becomes an extension of 7A to the 404, skipping both Uxbridge and Stouffville.

Here is my thoughts drawn out on google earth a bit.. Extend the 404, drop 48 south of Sutton, reinstate 48 east of Beaverton and 169, and introduce an essentially brand new 47 alignment.

current setup of provincial highways:

w72GKkh.jpg



what it should be:

p5lg2Qu.jpg
 
Last edited:

ShonTron

Moderator
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
10,620
Reaction score
4,104
Location
Ward 13 - Toronto Centre
I'd bring back Highway 28 between Port Hope and Peterborough, and I'd extend Highway 412 to a point north of Brooklin, similar to the way Highway 410 meets Highway 10 on the Brampton/Caledon border. Highway 12/48 seriously needs some upgrades as well, it should be four-laned at Beaverton at the very least.
 

Transportfan

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
1,871
Reaction score
495
They should bring back 11 between Barrie and Newmarket, as there's a lot traffic going between them via Bradford. But as a different highway (perhaps 111), as there's no real relationship between that stretch and the RIRO north of Barrie. The route could follow Mapleview Dr. in Barrie and Green Lane. in Newmarket to connect to 400 and 404.

Untitled3.jpg


Another thing they could do is not only restore but extend some highways such as Hwy. 92 east of Elmvale to connect with the 400. It's one road now with two different county road numbers:

Untitled1.jpg
 

Attachments

  • Untitled3.jpg
    Untitled3.jpg
    279.6 KB · Views: 1,293
  • Untitled1.jpg
    Untitled1.jpg
    255.2 KB · Views: 733

innsertnamehere

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
15,225
Reaction score
10,804
I'd bring back Highway 28 between Port Hope and Peterborough, and I'd extend Highway 412 to a point north of Brooklin, similar to the way Highway 410 meets Highway 10 on the Brampton/Caledon border. Highway 12/48 seriously needs some upgrades as well, it should be four-laned at Beaverton at the very least.
Just do another 12 bypass of Brooklyn like orillia even, no need for a 400 series highway to make the connection, traffic levels are relatively low on 12 outside of the 12/48 stretch.

Disagree on that 111 idea, it's a duplicate highway of the 400. No real need for it.
 

gweed123

Moderator
Staff member
Member Bio
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
7,736
Reaction score
1,331
Location
Burlington
Not true. It's signed as Route 174 in Ottawa (through Orleans and Cumberland), and it is Prescott & Russell County Road 17 until it meets Highway 417 again near the Quebec border.

That's true, my bad. I guess when I drove it earlier this year I was spotting some of the old signs.

Just do another 12 bypass of Brooklyn like orillia even, no need for a 400 series highway to make the connection, traffic levels are relatively low on 12 outside of the 12/48 stretch.

Disagree on that 111 idea, it's a duplicate highway of the 400. No real need for it.

Agreed on the Brooklin bypass not needing to be built to 400-series standards, but it would be nice if it did have a seamless transition to Highway 412 around the 407.

And I think having a King's Highway that parallels a major 400-series highway is worthwhile, if nothing else as a clear bypass route (beyond the EDR signs). This is exactly why I favour re-instituting Highway 2.

As a side note, re-instituting Highway 2 may have a bit of a Historic Route 66 type of effect, where just simply signing the route may cause an increase in usage, and therefore a potential increase in business for businesses in the small towns along the route. I realize that Highway 2 doesn't have nearly the same cultural effect has Route 66, but it was the major route between Toronto and Montreal (in one form or another) for over 100 years.

If signing it as Highway 2 wouldn't work, maybe coming up with some sort of Historic Route designation/shield may be worthwhile, just to make it easier for people wanting to drive that route to follow the many turns that the route takes. Perhaps the same thing could be done for Yonge St from Toronto to Barrie, or Highway 5 from Toronto to Paris. Come to think of it, "Historic Highway #" may be a better option for, since it wouldn't require changing ownership of the road, just putting up consistent shields along the route. It would bring increased recognition to these routes as alternative driving routes, as well as the history those routes played in the development of Ontario.
 
Last edited:

Top