kEiThZ
Superstar
And I don't think you get the difference between anecdotes and general statistics.
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And I don't think you get the difference between anecdotes and general statistics.
kEiThZ
Superstar
And all this is before we discuss the PPP of an income based in US dollars.
ADRM
Senior Member
It feels like a waste of time explaining any of this to you, because you're obviously disinterested in engaging with the actual discussion at-hand in any productive way, but for the practice:
> It is a simple, plain, incontrovertible fact that, with the same income when adjusted for currency exchange rate, I paid a higher total tax rate living in Manhattan than I do in downtown Toronto.
> That shouldn't be surprising to anyone actually interested in fact -- 0r, "general statistics" to use your term -- because I paid US federal, NY state, and NY municipal income tax whilst living in the US (each category of which was material), but pay only one of those living in Toronto (no municipal tax!).
> And, as another poster pointed out, that's not even taking into account the existence of the sales tax, road tolls, or any other number of added burdens one deals with living in NYC.
> In general, of course, cost of living in Manhattan is much higher than it is in Toronto, and it's not even close.
> You asserted originally, for some reason and apropos of nothing, that another poster had ignored what you had claimed to be fact and what is, in reality, a gross generalization, and then accused some combination him or her and an amorphous collection of other individuals on this forum of insularity.
And, no, we really don't have to talk about purchasing power parity to make this discussion -- about the Gardiner Expressway, or at least as is the general intention -- relevant for the rest of the people on this thread.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
But their large health insurance premiums in the U.S. can be a big burden. Or going bankrupt to pay for their medial bills.
kEiThZ
Superstar
Like this will convince any voter in Toronto to accept higher taxes.
I get the sentiment. I really do.
But people who keep on and on about New York, or London, or wherever seem to ignore local context a lot here. This is where I think Tory has really done a lot for Toronto with the Gardiner toll. He's used a good ton of political capital and made tolls politically acceptable.
We should push that advantage. But not to the point of pissing off the average voter.
I firmly believe that a sales tax will be viewed as a step too far by the average voter. Because you'll be reminded, every time you buy something. Things like property taxes, land transfer taxes and even the VRT are occasional or less visible. That's the key to making them palatable.
kEiThZ
Superstar
A myth that needs to go.
http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/largest-cities-in-north-america.html
Toronto is big to be sure. But it's Houston big. Not Chicago big.
That's metropolitan area; by actual city area, it's the fourth largest. So it's not a myth, it just depends which metric you're looking at. Fourth or seventh, Toronto often still acts like a city the size of Ottawa rather than a city of over 6 million (metropolitan) or almost 3 million (city).
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Though the figure is probably of the CMA and not Golden Horseshoe, which is in the 8M+ range now.
AoD
WislaHD
Superstar
"The population of the Greater Golden Horseshoe was 8.7 million residents at the 2011 census. In 2011, the Greater Horseshoe was the fifth most populous greater urbanized area in North America, just behind the Baltimore-DC-Northern Virginia CSA." - Wikipedia.
So yes, if we are going to be including the entire Chicagoland, then the Greater Golden Horseshoe is on the same level.
The nucleus cities of Toronto and Chicago are also at the same level.
I think the comparison is apt.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
It is sort of dependent on how "Metropolitan" is defined - commutershed in the case of CMA I believe:
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/ref/dict/geo009-eng.cfm
In the case of the US Metropolitian Statistical Area, the definition are along similar but not exactly comparable lines:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area
CSA is another measure but it is again different:
The primary distinguishing factor between a CSA and an MSA is that the social and economic ties between the individual MSAs within a CSA are at lower levels than between the counties within an MSA. CSAs represent multiple metropolitan or micropolitan areas that have an employment interchange of 25. CSAs often represent regions with overlapping labor and media markets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area
AoD
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2011/ref/dict/geo009-eng.cfm
In the case of the US Metropolitian Statistical Area, the definition are along similar but not exactly comparable lines:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area
CSA is another measure but it is again different:
The primary distinguishing factor between a CSA and an MSA is that the social and economic ties between the individual MSAs within a CSA are at lower levels than between the counties within an MSA. CSAs represent multiple metropolitan or micropolitan areas that have an employment interchange of 25. CSAs often represent regions with overlapping labor and media markets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_statistical_area
AoD
rbt
Senior Member
They also went 70+ years between their last subway extension and the first chunk of the 2nd Ave opening which is mostly federal money. Despite their broader income stream MTA finances aren't in better shape than the TTC.
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ADRM
Senior Member
And the 7 extension is a great example of proper, needs-based transit planning -- the latest expansion, which opened not long ago, was conceived of to serve the nascent Hudson Yards neighbourhood (among other priorities); got a whole bunch of density coming quickly to an area and need transit to serve it? Build the transit to serve it.
The vast majority of Hudson Yards development isn't even slated to come online for years, and the subway to serve it is already open.
Makes you think about our process here, from RL to East Bayfront to Liberty Village and so on.
amnesiajune
Senior Member
Here in Toronto it would've been called a $3 billion one-stop boondoggle by its opponents and we would've sat around debating what the "right" option is for two decades.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Actually it would be more like DRL being in place before East Harbour is even open - because I am sure the Hudson Yard urban context so comparable to anywhere else in the city. Of course, nobody seem to have issue prioritizing that over a 3B subway extension because that's what NYC would have done?
AoD