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Roads: Gardiner Expressway

None of those jurisdictions have the kinds of traffic and commuter woes we face. Is that in part because of the infrastructure they built through tolls? In that case we better get more transportation infrastructure for these tolls, not more of the same congestion.
 
Euphoria said:
None of those jurisdictions have the kinds of traffic and commuter woes we face. Is that in part because of the infrastructure they built through tolls? In that case we better get more transportation infrastructure for these tolls, not more of the same congestion.
Click to expand...

That literally could not be more inaccurate. It's a truly laughable assertion.
 
Okay wise guy, here are Tom Tom's rankings for the 50 worst cities for traffic congestion in North America. Please don't harp on about New York coming in near the top. It bloody well should as it's an apples and oranges comparison to set Toronto alongside a city with a greater metropolitan area 3-4 times its size. There are really only 3-5 cities in the world comparable to New York, and I'm not just talking about population. I'm talking about its significance to world commerce and culture. Toronto is an emerging city in this regard, still ranked by some measures as a "Beta city" comparable to San Fran. San Fran and San Jose are significant globally for a few reasons, the largest of which is its R&D/tech sector/Silicon Valley. The U.S. is roughly 9.5 times the size of Canada, yet four Canadian cities are in the worst 20, and the rankings include Mexico. Chicago has significantly less congestion than Toronto.

World Rank Filter Rank City Country Congestion Level (Extra travel time) Morning Peak Evening Peak
1 1 Mexico City Mexico 59% 4% 97% 94%
10 2 Los Angeles United States 41% 2% 60% 81%
31 3 San Francisco United States 36% 2% 54% 69%
36 4 Vancouver Canada 34% 1% 50% 65%
39 5 New York United States 33% 2% 49% 61%
44 6 Seattle United States 31% 0% 53% 75%
51 7 San José United States 30% 0% 58% 74%
54 8 Honolulu United States 29% 3% 52% 62%
64 9 Toronto Canada 28% 3% 48% 60%
66 10 Miami United States 28% 1% 48% 59%
79 11 Washington United States 26% 1% 42% 58%
81 12 Montreal Canada 26% 1% 47% 57%
85 13 Portland United States 26% 0% 36% 62%
86 14 Ottawa Canada 26% 2% 43% 58%
88 15 Chicago United States 26% 1% 38% 58%
93 16 Houston United States 25% 0% 43% 66%
95 17 Boston United States 25% 1% 43% 52%
96 18 Atlanta United States 24% 0% 45% 60%
97 19 San Diego United States 24% 0% 41% 55%
98 20 Tampa United States 24% 1% 34% 52%
99 21 Orlando United States 23% 0% 28% 49%
101 22 Philadelphia United States 23% 0% 37% 50%
102 23 Baton Rouge United States 23% 0% 29% 63%
105 24 Nashville United States 22% 2% 44% 61%
106 25 New Orleans United States 22% 1% 31% 49%
107 26 Austin United States 22% 3% 39% 57%
111 27 Las Vegas United States 22% 2% 21% 38%
113 28 Denver United States 21% 1% 35% 48%
115 29 Edmonton Canada 21% 2% 30% 40%
119 30 Riverside United States 20% 1% 35% 44%
121 31 Sacramento United States 19% 1% 34% 51%
122 32 Calgary Canada 19% 3% 28% 39%
124 33 Tucson United States 19% 3% 25% 30%
125 34 Pittsburgh United States 18% 1% 29% 40%
129 35 New Haven United States 18% 0% 26% 46%
130 36 Baltimore United States 18% 1% 28% 45%
131 37 Providence United States 18% 0% 30% 41%
132 38 Virginia Beach United States 18% 1% 22% 40%
133 39 San Antonio United States 18% 0% 33% 47%
134 40 Fresno United States 17% 0% 22% 28%
135 41 Dallas-Fort Worth United States 17% 1% 32% 45%
136 42 McAllen United States 17% 1% 16% 28%
137 43 Louisville United States 17% 0% 23% 47%
138 44 Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura United States 17% 1% 18% 34%
139 45 Jacksonville United States 16% 1% 28% 44%
140 46 Raleigh United States 16% 0% 26% 43%
141 47 Hartford United States 16% 0% 26% 43%
142 48 Memphis United States 16% 1% 22% 34%
143 49 Albuquerque United States 16% 2% 23% 33%
144 50 Charlotte United States 16% 2% 26% 46%
 
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Euphoria said:
Okay wise guy, here are Tom Tom's rankings for the 50 worst cities for traffic congestion in North America. Please don't harp on about New York coming in near the top. It bloody well should as it's an apples and oranges comparison to set Toronto alongside a city with a greater metropolitan area 3-4 times its size. There are really only 3-5 cities in the world comparable to New York, and I'm not just talking about population. I'm talking about its significance to world commerce and culture. Toronto is an emerging city in this regard, still ranked by some measures as a "Beta city" comparable to San Fran. San Fran and San Jose are significant globally for a few reasons, the largest of which is its R&D/tech sector/Silicon Valley. The U.S. is roughly 9.5 times the size of Canada, yet four Canadian cities are in the worst 20, and the rankings include Mexico. Chicago has significantly less congestion than Toronto.

World Rank Filter Rank City Country Congestion Level (Extra travel time) Morning Peak Evening Peak
1 1 Mexico City Mexico 59% 4% 97% 94%
10 2 Los Angeles United States 41% 2% 60% 81%
31 3 San Francisco United States 36% 2% 54% 69%
36 4 Vancouver Canada 34% 1% 50% 65%
39 5 New York United States 33% 2% 49% 61%
44 6 Seattle United States 31% 0% 53% 75%
51 7 San José United States 30% 0% 58% 74%
54 8 Honolulu United States 29% 3% 52% 62%
64 9 Toronto Canada 28% 3% 48% 60%
66 10 Miami United States 28% 1% 48% 59%
79 11 Washington United States 26% 1% 42% 58%
81 12 Montreal Canada 26% 1% 47% 57%
85 13 Portland United States 26% 0% 36% 62%
86 14 Ottawa Canada 26% 2% 43% 58%
88 15 Chicago United States 26% 1% 38% 58%
93 16 Houston United States 25% 0% 43% 66%
95 17 Boston United States 25% 1% 43% 52%
96 18 Atlanta United States 24% 0% 45% 60%
97 19 San Diego United States 24% 0% 41% 55%
98 20 Tampa United States 24% 1% 34% 52%
99 21 Orlando United States 23% 0% 28% 49%
101 22 Philadelphia United States 23% 0% 37% 50%
102 23 Baton Rouge United States 23% 0% 29% 63%
105 24 Nashville United States 22% 2% 44% 61%
106 25 New Orleans United States 22% 1% 31% 49%
107 26 Austin United States 22% 3% 39% 57%
111 27 Las Vegas United States 22% 2% 21% 38%
113 28 Denver United States 21% 1% 35% 48%
115 29 Edmonton Canada 21% 2% 30% 40%
119 30 Riverside United States 20% 1% 35% 44%
121 31 Sacramento United States 19% 1% 34% 51%
122 32 Calgary Canada 19% 3% 28% 39%
124 33 Tucson United States 19% 3% 25% 30%
125 34 Pittsburgh United States 18% 1% 29% 40%
129 35 New Haven United States 18% 0% 26% 46%
130 36 Baltimore United States 18% 1% 28% 45%
131 37 Providence United States 18% 0% 30% 41%
132 38 Virginia Beach United States 18% 1% 22% 40%
133 39 San Antonio United States 18% 0% 33% 47%
134 40 Fresno United States 17% 0% 22% 28%
135 41 Dallas-Fort Worth United States 17% 1% 32% 45%
136 42 McAllen United States 17% 1% 16% 28%
137 43 Louisville United States 17% 0% 23% 47%
138 44 Oxnard-Thousand Oaks-Ventura United States 17% 1% 18% 34%
139 45 Jacksonville United States 16% 1% 28% 44%
140 46 Raleigh United States 16% 0% 26% 43%
141 47 Hartford United States 16% 0% 26% 43%
142 48 Memphis United States 16% 1% 22% 34%
143 49 Albuquerque United States 16% 2% 23% 33%
144 50 Charlotte United States 16% 2% 26% 46%
Click to expand...

Your exact phrasing was "None of those jurisdictions have the kinds of traffic and commuter woes we face." That is untrue.

If you want to qualify it using one particular measure or study, sure, that's your prerogative. But that's not what you wrote, and how should I know what you're thinking beyond what you write?

"Toronto has worse traffic than New York" is plainly untrue by any relevant metric.

While I'm at it, "There are really only 3-5 cities in the world comparable to New York" is similarly vague and abstruse, not to mention that it's A) impossible to assess, and B) woefully western-centric.

Wise guy.
 
The point is, don't bother adding New York to the comparison because it's in a different league. Sure we can split hairs over fine points and semantics, which are practically irrelevant to the message that the commutes in Toronto are horrendous by any metric and hold down our quality of life.
 
Euphoria said:
The point is, don't bother adding New York to the comparison because it's in a different league. Sure we can split hairs over fine points and semantics, which are practically irrelevant to the message that the commutes in Toronto are horrendous by any metric and hold down our quality of life.
Click to expand...

I think it's essential we compare ourselves to cities like New York, learn from their experiences, and adjust our policies and decision-making in an effort to affect better outcomes once we do become like the New Yorks of the world.
 
I wis we had more ballot measures like they do in the US.

Make it a ballot measure. Free boulevard or tolled replacement.

We could even have the Euphoria option: more expensive tolled tunnel.

We need to involve the public more in no small part to improve awareness and buy in.
 
ADRM said:
I think it's essential we compare ourselves to cities like New York, learn from their experiences, and adjust our policies and decision-making in an effort to affect better outcomes once we do become like the New Yorks of the world.
Click to expand...
We are now the fourth largest city (by population) in North America. It's time we grow up and realize that we are a large city, not a small one.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Toronto has no income tax nor a sales tax. New York City has an income tax that range from 2.907% to 3.648%, and a sales tax of 4.5%. Toronto has to beg Queen's Park and Parliament Hill for crumbs.
Click to expand...

The overall tax burden is also a lot lower for individuals in the US. You ignore that.

While I understand and support more investment, there are times I feel like some of you don't talk to anybody outside this forum....

We need to find ways to fund infrastructure in a manner the public will bare. And to expand the boundaries slowly. The surest way to get arch-conservatives elected would to impose the taxes you propose, IMHO.
 
kEiThZ said:
The overall tax burden is also a lot lower for individuals in the US. You ignore that.

While I understand and support more investment, there are times I feel like some of you don't talk to anybody outside this forum....

We need to find ways to fund infrastructure in a manner the public will bare. And to expand the boundaries slowly. The surest way to get arch-conservatives elected would to impose the taxes you propose, IMHO.
Click to expand...

I pay a lower combined tax rate living and working in Toronto than I did living and working in New York.
 
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