Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation

[Garuda]

Temagami: population 802. No year-round grocery store. It does have a health clinic and pharmacy as well as a hardware store. Public school only.
Washago: population 170. Small grocery store. No health facilities. No school. It does have a hardware store and a big honkin' liquor store.

I suppose if being really small makes something 'walkable' and you don't have a need for much of anything, I suppose they qualify.

Perhaps they, and other like them, are a great opportunity for some eager entrepreneur to start a taxi service. I'm sure there must be loads of other business outside of train time.

Temagami will be very popular in the summer for cottagers/students heading to water access only camps and cottages. In fact, I might plan one and have my friend pick me up at the docks a short walk away.

Temagami is smaller than it looks (especially in the summer) as further west is the main parking area/ marina for water access properties.

 

[Fritter]

Northern Ontario’s population surges at record rate

Our region’s population is growing at record numbers, according to recent Statistics Canada numbers, with many communities seeing their highest influx of residents in years.

northernontario.ctvnews.ca

Considering resent population discussions in this thread, I thought this was an interesting article to show up in my feed. I am not saying this proves the need to build a Taj Malal station in Timiskaming, however maybe all is not doom and gloom in Northern Ontario.

 

[roger1818]

BTW, the pin is pointing at the old original station which is used by MOW staff. The kiosk is the little dark thing next to it.

Here is a picture of VIA's structure I found online:


Washago VIA Waiting Room - by true_north on Ramblin' Boy

 

[lenaitch]

Here is a picture of VIA's structure I found online:


Washago VIA Waiting Room - by true_north on Ramblin' Boy

Yup, that's it, in all its glory. It looks set back because there used to be four tracks there - about where the Jersey barriers are. There were a few other storage tracks along with a coal tower (still there). The old actual station is behind the camera to the right. It looks offset from the current alignment because the tracks were moved in, I think the 1960s to accommodate the Hwy 11 overpass.

The station was somewhat unique as it had an operator's bay window on both sides since it originally sat between the (now) Bala and Newmarket subs at another location to the south where the two ROWs - originally separate railways - crossed at a diamond. You can still make out bits of the old alignments in sat photos.

 

[micheal_can]

Northern Ontario’s population surges at record rate

Our region’s population is growing at record numbers, according to recent Statistics Canada numbers, with many communities seeing their highest influx of residents in years.

northernontario.ctvnews.ca

Considering resent population discussions in this thread, I thought this was an interesting article to show up in my feed. I am not saying this proves the need to build a Taj Malal station in Timiskaming, however maybe all is not doom and gloom in Northern Ontario.

I posted that earlier.The doom and gloom tends to come from those that don't know the area.or don't understand the needs. A lot of the old ONR stations were overbuilt, like the one in Cobalt. What we don't want to do is under build them and then spend millions more to rebuild them the way they should have been on opening day.

Here is a picture of VIA's structure I found online:


Washago VIA Waiting Room - by true_north on Ramblin' Boy

I am trying to figure out why this is being replaced.

 

[PinkLucy]

Northern Ontario’s population surges at record rate

Our region’s population is growing at record numbers, according to recent Statistics Canada numbers, with many communities seeing their highest influx of residents in years.

northernontario.ctvnews.ca

Considering resent population discussions in this thread, I thought this was an interesting article to show up in my feed. I am not saying this proves the need to build a Taj Malal station in Timiskaming, however maybe all is not doom and gloom in Northern Ontario.

The population growth is in the biggest centres, not the small whistle stop towns. And Northern Ontario is huge. Sault Ste Marie is hours away from Timmins. Growth is great but it’s important to see where it’s happening and the likely impact on the Northlander (SSM is irrelevant to that discussion)

I’m a realist and was a 30 year resident in NE Ontario.

 

[micheal_can]

The population growth is in the biggest centres, not the small whistle stop towns. And Northern Ontario is huge. Sault Ste Marie is hours away from Timmins. Growth is great but it’s important to see where it’s happening and the likely impact on the Northlander (SSM is irrelevant to that discussion)

I’m a realist and was a 30 year resident in NE Ontario.

2 of the 4 largest cities in North East Ontario will be served by this line.That would be North Bay and Timmins.North Bay saw 5000 and Timmins saw 2000.That is huge growth for up here. That would be akin to adding 250,000-500,000 to Toronto.

 

[roger1818]

I posted that earlier.The doom and gloom tends to come from those that don't know the area.or don't understand the needs. A lot of the old ONR stations were overbuilt, like the one in Cobalt. What we don't want to do is under build them and then spend millions more to rebuild them the way they should have been on opening day.



I am trying to figure out why this is being replaced.

So you think a run down 8' x 8' wooden shack with tiny windows would be adequate, but spacious, climate controlled glass shelters aren't?

 

[roger1818]

2 of the 4 largest cities in North East Ontario will be served by this line.That would be North Bay and Timmins.North Bay saw 5000 and Timmins saw 2000.That is huge growth for up here. That would be akin to adding 250,000-500,000 to Toronto.

And both of those cities will have station buildings.

 

[micheal_can]

So you think a run down 8' x 8' wooden shack with tiny windows would be adequate, but spacious, climate controlled glass shelters aren't?

I don't, but I feel that we should start with adding stations to where nothing is and then revamping the older once that we can still use.

 

[lenaitch]

The population growth is in the biggest centres, not the small whistle stop towns. And Northern Ontario is huge. Sault Ste Marie is hours away from Timmins. Growth is great but it’s important to see where it’s happening and the likely impact on the Northlander (SSM is irrelevant to that discussion)

I’m a realist and was a 30 year resident in NE Ontario.

I would think most of the growth is coming from mineral exploration and new mines. Renewable resources (forestry) is flat if not in decline. One of the reasons for the growth in established centres is companies no longer create company town and the government will no longer allow new townsites to be established around a mine, because they are stuck with servicing a shell of the town when the mine inevitably closes. Extended shift cycles and decent transportation allows staff commute.

 

[micheal_can]

I would think most of the growth is coming from mineral exploration and new mines. Renewable resources (forestry) is flat if not in decline. One of the reasons for the growth in established centres is companies no longer create company town and the government will no longer allow new townsites to be established around a mine, because they are stuck with servicing a shell of the town when the mine inevitably closes. Extended shift cycles and decent transportation allows staff commute.

One of the biggest thing is if someone can work from home,housing up here is cheap in comparison to other large cities. So, people are moving where they have a good internet connection. If companies had not called back workers to the office, we may have seen even higher growth. There are some new projects, so some people may be moving closer to lessen the distance on company transportation.

 

[lenaitch]

I posted that earlier.The doom and gloom tends to come from those that don't know the area.or don't understand the needs. A lot of the old ONR stations were overbuilt, like the one in Cobalt. What we don't want to do is under build them and then spend millions more to rebuild them the way they should have been on opening day.

There no doubt a degree of edifice -building by the railways back then - they all did it, but I'm not sure I would agree that stations were overbuilt. They were built for the needs of the day. When it was pushed through in the early part of the last century, the railway was the only practical means of transportation. Pretty much everything and everybody went in or out of the area by rail. The Ferguson Highway (Hwy 11) wasn't pushed through until the mid-1920s and in the beginning was a mud track a lot of the time and sections kept sinking away in the muskeg.

You mention Cobalt. According to Wiki, in 1909, there were 34 mines operating and it had a population of around 10,000. That's a lot of people and freight when you're the only game in town. That's a lot different than roughly 1,000 today (and shrinking).

I don't know for certain, but if they were like any other railway back then, there would have been multiple freight, passenger and mixed trains day and night. Back then, railways were labour intensive, so facilities were needed for passengers, train crews, dispatchers, station agent, freight handlers, section crews, yard crews, managers and supervisors, etc. Space was needed for baggage, mail, equipment, etc. Station had a role beyond passenger service.

My dad used to escort gold bars from Matachawan to the railhead at Elk Lake (interestingly, they left it on platform with the agent and returned, and never had a problem. He said if it had been a bottle of liquor it wouldn't have lasted 15 minutes).

Almost none of that is needed now. The proposed facilities will have a passenger-only role. The two large centres on the proposed route will have bricks-and-mortar stations, possibly twinned with ONR bus service and their municipal transit. Even at that I doubt they will be 24/7 operations. For a single train each way (maybe every day, maybe not, I'm not sure) there is absolutely no need, except in your mind and your mind alone, for millions to be spend on larger facilities. What the area residents need is a reliable travel alternative. What they don't need is costly add-ons that drive the project out of reach.

You're on this like tic. Yell at your MPP, lie down on tracks or hold your breath until you turn blue. I'm done.

 

[PinkLucy]

2 of the 4 largest cities in North East Ontario will be served by this line.That would be North Bay and Timmins.North Bay saw 5000 and Timmins saw 2000.That is huge growth for up here. That would be akin to adding 250,000-500,000 to Toronto.

Akin to doesn’t put bums in seats on trains. Who are these people? Will they take the train? Both North Bay and Timmins have quick alternative such as flights. 2000 people in Timmins doesn’t equal 2000 tickets sold. It’s great that you want this to succeed, so do I — I used to love taking the Northlander — but things are different now including better, faster travel by private vehicle.

 

[PinkLucy]

There no doubt a degree of edifice -building by the railways back then - they all did it, but I'm not sure I would agree that stations were overbuilt. They were built for the needs of the day. When it was pushed through in the early part of the last century, the railway was the only practical means of transportation. Pretty much everything and everybody went in or out of the area by rail. The Ferguson Highway (Hwy 11) wasn't pushed through until the mid-1920s and in the beginning was a mud track a lot of the time and sections kept sinking away in the muskeg.

You mention Cobalt. According to Wiki, in 1909, there were 34 mines operating and it had a population of around 10,000. That's a lot of people and freight when you're the only game in town. That's a lot different than roughly 1,000 today (and shrinking).

I don't know for certain, but if they were like any other railway back then, there would have been multiple freight, passenger and mixed trains day and night. Back then, railways were labour intensive, so facilities were needed for passengers, train crews, dispatchers, station agent, freight handlers, section crews, yard crews, managers and supervisors, etc. Space was needed for baggage, mail, equipment, etc. Station had a role beyond passenger service.

My dad used to escort gold bars from Matachawan to the railhead at Elk Lake (interestingly, they left it on platform with the agent and returned, and never had a problem. He said if it had been a bottle of liquor it wouldn't have lasted 15 minutes).

Almost none of that is needed now. The proposed facilities will have a passenger-only role. The two large centres on the proposed route will have bricks-and-mortar stations, possibly twinned with ONR bus service and their municipal transit. Even at that I doubt they will be 24/7 operations. For a single train each way (maybe every day, maybe not, I'm not sure) there is absolutely no need, except in your mind and your mind alone, for millions to be spend on larger facilities. What the area residents need is a reliable travel alternative. What they don't need is costly add-ons that drive the project out of reach.

You're on this like tic. Yell at your MPP, lie down on tracks or hold your breath until you turn blue. I'm done.

Cobalt was a boom town. They even had a professional hockey team. But it’s a far cry from that today ,and the return of the Northlander won’t change what it has become. Unless Michael brings all his friends to ride the rails to hit up the Cobalt Legion on a Friday night.