OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

[RC8]

I believe Quebec owns and runs their own casino - unlike the one proposed in Toronto.

 

[canmark]

And perhaps the telling thing about those stats is:

>>> Visitors: 90% from Quebec; 10% out of province

The province is taking in profits largely from its own people.

 

[Automation Gallery]

OK, whats the revenue of the AGO to the province, which gets as many total visitors yearly (600.000), as out of town visitors to the Montreal Casino (10% of 200 mil....est. 20 million dollars profit)

 

[gabe]

I believe Quebec owns and runs their own casino - unlike the one proposed in Toronto.

That's correct. I can see why tourists don't go out of their way to visit the Montreal casino. Unlike the casino complexes proposed for Toronto, Montreal's casino is built for gamblers not for tourists. I'm not a big gambler, but there is really nothing else to do at the Montreal casino. And they don't allow drinks on the gaming floor for some stupid reason.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

OK, whats the revenue of the AGO to the province, which gets as many total visitors yearly (600.000), as out of town visitors to the Montreal Casino (10% of 200 mil....est. 20 million dollars profit)

Apples and oranges, as you well know. What point are you trying to make? That we should be happy to have a private casino soaking Ontarians as long as the provincial treasury gets a piece?

 

[Automation Gallery]

That we should be happy to have a private casino soaking Ontarians as long as the provincial treasury gets a piece?

Well the LCBO has been doing it for the last 95yrs. and it seems that.... no one gives a hoot, knowing very well that alcohol does much more damage to society than gambling. Gee, talk about apples and oranges

 

[RC8]

The damage of a) not having a provincial alcohol distributor, or b) outlawing alcohol, would be much greater than what we have to deal with at the moment.

The damage of not allowing gambling in downtown Toronto is nil, on the other hand.

As I've said all along, most people who want to see this tend to not care about the facts at all. They just want to see it built for emotional reasons and thus emotionally support it.

 

[nfitz]

The Toronto Star had an article on Montreal Casino last year. What can Toronto learn from Montreal’s downtown casino? http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...nto_learn_from_montreals_downtown_casino.html

Thanks.

So no evidence, even ancedotal, of crime issues. The only real problem they seem to suggest is for a few with a gambling addiction.

So if people could be addicted to alcohol, would we ban pubs?

If the only problem is gambling addiction, I have a hard time seeing why we would restrict this, anymore than we do alcohol - or heck, even video games.

BTW, I have absolutely no interest in such establishments myself. I can understand betting on a horse, or betting on a game. At least there's some challenge. I suppose I can even understand a poker game. I don't get slot machines ... and why anyone would find them entertaining. Wouldn't pin-ball be much more entertaining? But who am I to tell others what they shouldn't do?

 

[canmark]

National Post: RioCan CEO rails against downtown Toronto casino

The CEO of RioCan, Canada’s largest real estate investment trust, has come out against plans for a downtown Toronto casino — despite RioCan’s board chairman being Paul Godfrey, the pro-casino chairman of the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation.

“[RioCan CEO Edward Sonshine] can do things as an individual, this isn’t a board matter,” said Mr. Godfrey, who is also president and CEO of Postmedia Network, parent company of the National Post.

“I encourage people on both sides of the issue to get their points of view across.”

On Jan. 31, Mr. Sonshine sent a letter to Toronto city manager Joseph Pennachetti warning that the “risk of the potential negative impacts from developing a mega casino in the downtown outweighs the potential benefits.”

The letter is co-signed by Allied Properties CEO Michael Emory and Stephen Diamond, president of the Whitecastle New Urban Fund.

Mr. Sonshine asserts he is not anti-casino, however, just anti-downtown casino. “We’re just against the casino within a very well-defined area, outside of that area we don’t care,” he said in an interview Tuesday night.

The three main casino location contenders are Exhibition Place, the Port Lands and the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. Mr. Sonshine and his partners oppose the convention centre site; they have no quarrel with locating the venue at the Ex or the Port Lands, which do not fall into what the city defines as the “downtown,” he said.

While some of the most vocal anti-casino arguments have been social, such as a Toronto Public Health report alleging the casino will lead to an increase in problem gambling and respiratory issues from car exhaust, Mr. Sonshine said his concerns are purely gridlock-related.

“It’s really an issue of transportation and infrastructure availability,” he said. “It’s not a social issue by us at all.”

 

[000]

RioCan and Allied are talking their book, didn't they also want to develop the G&M lands into a luxury shopping mall?...

 

[RC8]

Thanks.

So no evidence, even ancedotal, of crime issues. The only real problem they seem to suggest is for a few with a gambling addiction.

So if people could be addicted to alcohol, would we ban pubs?

If the only problem is gambling addiction, I have a hard time seeing why we would restrict this, anymore than we do alcohol - or heck, even video games.

BTW, I have absolutely no interest in such establishments myself. I can understand betting on a horse, or betting on a game. At least there's some challenge. I suppose I can even understand a poker game. I don't get slot machines ... and why anyone would find them entertaining. Wouldn't pin-ball be much more entertaining? But who am I to tell others what they shouldn't do?

The Montreal Casino is located in a deserted island people drive to on a highway. It's a 15 minute drive away from downtown, and a 40 minute walk/ferry combo away.

It's as if we built our casino where the Hearn generating station currently sits, except even more isolated (since their casino is surrounded by water and parkland) and further away (their casino is 6km from the core, while the Hearn is 5km from our downtown)!

Exhibition Place is 3.5km and even Ontario Place is only 5km away from downtown.

The Oxford proposal is 350m and a 5 minute walk from the core, and literally across the street and a 20 second to 10 minute walk away from residential neighbourhoods housing over 25,220 people (2011 census).

 

[Peepers]

Who gets to decide where this Casino gets built? Does Paul Godfrey have a say in the final decision? If so it seems he has a huge conflict of interest as the CEO of Rio-Can which has publicly announced it's opposition to a downtown Casino (I suspect the convention centre proposal is their greatest worry).

 

[RC8]

1) That's an ancient picture.

2) Most residential towers would not be seen from that angle anyway.

3) 25,000+ people would live a 10 minute WALK from the casino there.

4) Only 15% of downtown residents drive a car regularly, so yes, it would make an enormous difference to have it an hour walk away rather than a 10 minute walk away.

5) nfitz was enquiring about crime, and I was simply pointing out that we probably wouldn't see much crime if we had our casino in an isolated location like Montreal's. If the casino is in the middle of one of the densest residential areas in Canada, then Montreal's example isn't particularly useful in that regard.

6)

Let's look at appropriate recent pictures...

At the bottom centre you can see where the casino complex would begin:

And now let's look directly south of that bridge you see there:

I count at least 50 residential towers, most of them around 40 stories tall. And they are mostly residential, too, not mixed use. Every day I see strollers and little kids on the street with their parents around that area.

In the opposite direction you'd have a similar view, with lots of residential towers and lots of people inside them. As I said, there's over 25,000 people living within 10 minutes of this proposal. In the coming years it will probably rise to over 30,000...

... and that is exactly why these billionaires want a casino there. They are not stupid.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Who gets to decide where this Casino gets built? Does Paul Godfrey have a say in the final decision? If so it seems he has a huge conflict of interest as the CEO of Rio-Can which has publicly announced it's opposition to a downtown Casino (I suspect the convention centre proposal is their greatest worry).

Godfrey is Chairman of RioCan, Sonshine is CEO and has already acknowledged the conflict in news reports. I suspect Godfrey still wants Front. Easiest place to attract punters. I'd say the only reason he'd go with somewhere else would be to build on a more massive scale.

 

[Torontovibe]

Is there any city in the world that put a huge casino right in the middle of a high density residential district full of towers? The Los Vegas strip is surrounded by empty lots and suburban housing tracts. It's basically the opposite of a downtown, urban residential area. Even the 2 casinos in Australian cities, appear to be away from the high density residential areas. The convention centre site seems to be the only huge casino site that I've seen, that is in the middle of a very high density, residential area. Even the mega casino in Singapore, is on its own little, isolated parcel of land, away from the main, downtown residential area.

If Toronto builds the casino at the convention centre site, it might be the first city in the world to build a mega casino, surrounded by large, high density, residential areas. You have CityPlace, the Entertainment District condos and Southcore, all surrounding that site. Where else in the world do you have anything like that? We are headed into uncharted waters, as far as I can see.