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OLG Toronto/GTA casino proposal (where to put it?)

PinkLucy said:
Studies have been done and referenced earlier in this thread ... (too busy to chase them down at the moment)
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And those studies are clearly insufficient when it comes to assessing the impacts of a megacasino in a thriving urban community.

What I take from them is that there's an awful lot that can go wrong, and very little that can improve relative to where the city is going anyway. I would like to see studies specifically projecting the economic potential for this site without a casino, for example.
 
I demand a study showing how much money the city would make if instead of a casino we got an Eaton Centre type development with a convention centre, a planetarium, 2 office towers, 2 residential towers, and a new hotel where MTCC currently sits.
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I demand that the study you demand includes the effect the mall and planetarium you propose (in place of a Casino) on Toronto's ability to attract foreign tourists, major trade show and convention business.

How many additional overnight hotel stays do you think will be spurred by a mall and a planetarium?
I wouldn't cross the street to visit a mall. Maybe I'd visit the planetarium once, twice if they brought back Laser Floyd... but I have flown to Atlantic city for New Years and to Las Vegas for my birthday with numerous couples. We spent nights in hotels, ate in restaurants and saw shows. Not one of us came home to shattered lives.

Each job created will provide an actual, calcuable and direct benefit to the individual who gets that job. I don't need a study to show that people benefit from working. Is it not possible that the actual benefit of jobs construction and taxes outweigh the potential social costs of gambling? Many of you against the proposal refuse to even consider the possibility of it.

How many jobs will a planetarium create? When McLaughlin closed it put 40 people out of work. Maybe since Montreal and London have closed their planetariums recently people will flock to Toronto for the experience? Well Poland seems to have 20 Planetariums to choose from. If I was a Planetarium enthusiast, maybe I'd go to Poland first? Hmmm...

Your link about increase in Jobs in the core means what to the unemployed? The essence is more people are working in less space, not more people working. Downtown job growth is meaningless if more people are still going without jobs in Toronto. You sound elitist when you say things making it sound as if jobs downtown are more valuable than jobs city wide. Do you think the hotel staff, the restaurant cooks, the parking attendants live in Downtown Toronto? They are coming from Mississauga and Ajax and Aurora and can't, even if they wanted to, afford to live downtown. Less people are paying taxes, not more. More people demand government services, just not more downtown.

From the City of Toronto, Numbers and statements that really matter.
Overall, the unemployment rate for City of Toronto remains substantially higher than the
rest of the Toronto region and the rest of Canada. In September 2012, on a seasonally
adjusted monthly basis, the unemployment rate for the residents was 2.5% higher than for
all Canadian residents.
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I ask those who question the effect on the neighbourhood to identify the potential problem spots if this casino were to be built in this location? Looking at the area, which adjacent spot is at risk of negative consequences from the addition of a Casino to the convention centre?
8436999312_955ca4bdc9_b.jpg
 
jn_12 said:
As someone from Niagara, I can assure you that my comments are founded on the reality of the siituation down there. Yes, the casinos have helped provide some economic opportunities (mostly in the form of low paying seasonal jobs, which are without a doubt the worst jobs you can create), but I think you have little clue about what actually is going on down there. I wasn't lying when I said there are near-daily suicides. I have a friend who worked as a security guard there who would regularly find people hung in washrooms and a friend of my mom's killed himself when his gambling got the best of him and the mob got involved. And yes, The mob is a reality in Niagara. Maybe it's a reality in Toronto too, but it's no coincidence that it happens to exist in Niagara (a city of 75,000 people shouldn't have organized crime). You really don't need to find a reason to entice those people to take up shop here.

And the fact is, many studies have shown that there is a link between prevalence of gambling addictions and easier accessibility. Casinos provide the type of immediate feedback that contributes to addictions in a way something like a scratch ticket or a Proline can't. Not only this, but when people gamble at a casino they spend far more than they would gambling on something like the lottery. We're talking putting houses on the line, something you just can't do with the current forms of accessible gambling without raising a red flag (try buying $1,000 worth of lottery tickets... good luck).

My basis for not wanting a casino here is based on facts and my own first hand experiences of the tourism sector in Niagara. It's not based on a fear of the boogie man, and to be honest your sarcastic response only suggests to me that you know very little about the realities of such developments. I'd really suggest you look into it before being so glib.
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Here's more evidence to back you up:

Reality check: Five casino myths dispelled

Toronto casino:eek:dds are against hitting the jackpot

5 reasons why a casino will never be built in Toronto


Former Toronto mayors caution Ford on casino

Former Toronto mayors caution Ford on casino
 
It's not as if counselors are all engaging in enlightening discussions with Torontonians.
Gord Perks ‏@gordperks

@amarjeetkaur #topoliwtf Unions and benefits and daycare are Fantastic! What on Earth do they have to do with our gvt robbing addicts?
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Sadly the person he was replying to put their twitter to private sometime after it was posted but all it was saying was touting the union jobs for a casino. Unfortunately since it's unverifiable now I guess we might as well just ignore it.
 
I'm pretty neutral and ambivalent about the whole issue.

Let's look at what has happened in similar cities. Perhaps the best example is the casino that was built near downtown Montreal.

Can someone quantify how good or terrible this has been for the city? Perhaps if we can how it has helped or hurt Montreal, we can see what it's going to do here.
 
The Toronto Star had an article on Montreal Casino last year. What can Toronto learn from Montreal’s downtown casino? http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...nto_learn_from_montreals_downtown_casino.html

Montreal Casino, by the numbers

• Annual profits to Quebec government: $200 million

• Total profits since the casino opened in 1993: $4.1 billion

• Total visits since the casino opened: 108 million

• Visits per year: 6 million

• Visitors: 90% from Quebec; 10% out of province

• Average age of gambler: 57

• Employees: 3,000

• Average visit: 4 hours
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gabe said:
The Toronto Star had an article on Montreal Casino last year. What can Toronto learn from Montreal’s downtown casino? http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...nto_learn_from_montreals_downtown_casino.html
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I'd be interested to know the revenues, not just the profits, because that tells us how much people are spending there - money they're not spending on other things, or saving.

If the profits to the PQ govt are $200M per year... say that's 5% of the total takings... so the revenues of the casino would be $4B annually. Wow. (I hope my math is wrong.)

I'd also be interested in the number of visitors, in addition to visits.
 
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