Novel Coronavirus COVID-19 (nCoV-2019)

[Bayer]

Yes


I keep reviewing all the published evidence, I don't see any material link between the 'lockdown light' and better epidemiological results.

Vaccination aside (important point though it is); the failures in Ontario are about a lot of other things; I don't think one can say that Toronto having suffered the longest 'lockdown' on the continent benefited from same.

I have no time for anti-maskers, anti-vaxxers etc etc.

I'm all for good policy that protects the most people, practically.

But I don't see the evidence this policy works.

In fact, I see some evidence it makes it worse.

The more you diffuse people (by which I mean spread them out), the less transmission you get.

The more time spent outdoors, same.

Yet the focus has been on putting more people into less space, indoors (lockdown).

If the results were counter-intuitive, that would be one thing; but they aren't. Everything I see points to 'lockdown' producing a worse result.

****

LTCs aside, we never did expend the effort to move more things outdoors where practical. Be that school classes; or upending private golf clubs in favour of walking/biking/picnic space etc.

In the end, to me, neither fear, nor indifference should drive public policy; evidence should.

The "lockdown" just isn't strict enough. Most workplaces where workers must congregate inside remain open; the construction sector, where distancing is often impossible, is wide open as well; retail stores remain open despite the news release's contradictory advice to "limit trips outside the home to necessities such as food, medication, medical appointments, supporting vulnerable community members, or exercising outdoors with members of their household". Ford wants to keep the economy running. Two or three weeks of widespread isolation would work, but no one in this country has the stomach to order that. We would rather let people die.

 

[APTA-2048]

The "lockdown" just isn't strict enough. Most workplaces where workers must congregate inside remain open; the construction sector, where distancing is often impossible, is wide open as well; retail stores remain open despite the news release's contradictory advice to "limit trips outside the home to necessities such as food, medication, medical appointments, supporting vulnerable community members, or exercising outdoors with members of their household". Ford wants to keep the economy running. Two or three weeks of widespread isolation would work, but no one in this country has the stomach to order that. We would rather let people die.

In a way half-assing it does more damage, though. The economic and personal suffering lasts longer and the outcome is either the same or worse.

We didn't have a proper plan to reopen properly in the summer and we are still paying for it.

Then after Christmas, we panicked and did exactly what we are doing now. Somehow we expect the result will be different.

I'm still hopeful summer's going to be better, though. I think the continual supply of vaccines and the warmer weather will help quite a bit.

 

[PinkLucy]

Half assed is the worst. Shut it down (like, REALLY shut it down) or open it up, but this middle ground isn't doing anyone any favours.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From link.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Half assed is the worst. Shut it down (like, REALLY shut it down) or open it up, but this middle ground isn't doing anyone any favours.

The problem is - what is our goal in the first place? If our goal is not eradication of community transmission this kind of on-off is exactly what we have to deal with sooner or later.

AoD

 

[PinkLucy]

But his on / off isn't logical. Outbreaks at large workplaces and at schools, but we leave those open and close hair salons.

This sums it all up rather well: https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/04/01/a-267-word-timeline-of-ontarios-covid-19-response.html

 

[afransen]

If this is true. This will certainly KILL the restaurant industry all across the province. At least with patios they had some income coming in.Weather is getting warmer, patio's are in demand. Restaurants aren't staying afloat with take out.

Want to know how much it cost to re-open a small bar from lockdown to red? Over $2,000 out of pocket. My friend spent that a few weeks ago to rep-open his bar to indoor dining when they moved to red. Now back to lockdown that money is down the drain.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1377428965246128131

I know a restaurateur indirectly. Apparently he's pretty content with his take-out business. Probably not typical though. He owns his premises so doesn't have to meet a rent payment and has been able to cut back on staff.

 

[PinkLucy]

I know a restaurateur indirectly. Apparently he's pretty content with his take-out business. Probably not typical though. He owns his premises so doesn't have to meet a rent payment and has been able to cut back on staff.

Some of our local restaurants have been busier than they have ever been because there has been a huge local push to support them. Takeout works for some type of food (pub fare) but not so much for fine dining. Lack of alcohol sales is a big kicker, too.

 

[lenaitch]

Some of our local restaurants have been busier than they have ever been because there has been a huge local push to support them. Takeout works for some type of food (pub fare) but not so much for fine dining. Lack of alcohol sales is a big kicker, too.

Our daughter and S-i-L have been making a point of getting take-out from one of their favourite restaurants for that reason. Not pub fare and I don't know if it qualified as 'fine dining', just a restaurant that didn't do take-out in normal times and shifted to make it work.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Shouldn't the front-line workers (police, firefighters, paramedics, TTC operators, etc.) be included in the current vaccine allocations?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Shouldn't the front-line workers (police, firefighters, paramedics, TTC operators, etc.) be included in the current vaccine allocations?

I thought police had already been getting theirs.

AoD

 

[APTA-2048]

Shouldn't the front-line workers (police, firefighters, paramedics, TTC operators, etc.) be included in the current vaccine allocations?

They are included in Phase 2, which honestly, I thought the Province was supposed to announce today.

 

[PinkLucy]

They have been reducing ages (they just issued a media release with revised age limits for a number of regions), but they should just move o over to Phase 2

 

[W. K. Lis]

They are included in Phase 2, which honestly, I thought the Province was supposed to announce today.

In Phase 2, it says it includes "Transportation, warehousing and distribution". Does that include the transportation of goods or people or both? If it includes "people", then that means the TTC, GO, and VIA.

 

[APTA-2048]

In Phase 2, it says it includes "Transportation, warehousing and distribution". Does that include the transportation of goods or people or both? If it includes "people", then that means the TTC, GO, and VIA.

This document goes into more detail. Public transport workers are part of Phase 2, Group 2. This is scheduled to begin in June. But maybe it’ll come in a month earlier, given that we weren’t even supposed to be doing 75 year olds until right now.