Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[nfitz]

dumb location tbh. Too small and in a spot where nobody will notice. if theyre going to do that why not have it right above the green circle in larger font?

I don't think this is for customer information. Presumably they are aware they tapped on a TTC vehicle.

 

[Leo_Chan]

I don't think this is for customer information. Presumably they are aware they tapped on a TTC vehicle.

It think this has to do with the TTC vs MiWay/YRT fare on TTC buses.

 

[ViveleCanada]

Now that they seem to have the capability of paying for the TTC fare when you leave the Mississauga Transit bus, will we be able to board a MiWay bus in Toronto when it passes a TTC stop? I'm tired of seeing a string of empty MiWay buses pass my stop on the way to Islington station and then have to board an already jammed TTC bus. If they are starting to have the ability to accept TTC fares through Presto, why not???

No, unless Toronto City Council made major reforms to city bylaws under our noses. I'm have trouble finding the original document, but essentially only Toronto agencies (which includes the TTC) are permitted to collect fares within the City of Toronto. Remembering back to the Line 6 shuttle service a few years back, the operators had to creatively work around this and had customers pre-purchase a monthly pass instead of paying the fare upfront. YRT and MiWay are slightly exempted from the rule as they are permitted to ONLY drop off passengers while heading East/Southbound towards their destination within Toronto and pick up as they leave the city. TTC routes running within York and Mississauga are contracted so technically they aren't TTC routes when they leave Toronto. Wikipedia probably does a better job of explaining this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Region_Transit#TTC_fares_in_York_Region

Though certain YRT routes enter Toronto city limits, due to City of Toronto regulations, passengers may not board inbound (towards Toronto) YRT routes while in Toronto, nor disembark on outbound (away from Toronto) YRT routes while in Toronto.

So Presto really has nothing to do with this, just lovely Canadian Bureaucracy.

 

[Divas S.]

No, unless Toronto City Council made major reforms to city bylaws under our noses. I'm have trouble finding the original document, but essentially only Toronto agencies (which includes the TTC) are permitted to collect fares within the City of Toronto. Remembering back to the Line 6 shuttle service a few years back, the operators had to creatively work around this and had customers pre-purchase a monthly pass instead of paying the fare upfront. YRT and MiWay are slightly exempted from the rule as they are permitted to ONLY drop off passengers while heading East/Southbound towards their destination within Toronto and pick up as they leave the city. TTC routes running within York and Mississauga are contracted so technically they aren't TTC routes when they leave Toronto. Wikipedia probably does a better job of explaining this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_Region_Transit#TTC_fares_in_York_Region



So Presto really has nothing to do with this, just lovely Canadian Bureaucracy.

I honestly don't get the point of this, it doesn't work for anybody, and it surprises me how little people complain that TTC is the only GTA operator that doesn't have fare integration, if MiWay and Hamilton managed to fare integrate I seriously want to hear the excuses the TTC has in store.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I honestly don't get the point of this, it doesn't work for anybody, and it surprises me how little people complain that TTC is the only GTA operator that doesn't have fare integration, if MiWay and Hamilton managed to fare integrate I seriously want to hear the excuses the TTC has in store.

MiWay has a 46% farebox recovery ratio, while Hamilton (Street Railway) has a 45% farebox recovery ratio. The TTC has 72.8%. That's 72.8% paid by the TTC user. The rest is subsidy. (New York City is at 47%, Montreal is at 46%.) If the TTC had a higher subsidy (a lower FRR), maybe there would be a fare integration.

 

[W. K. Lis]

MiWay has a 46% farebox recovery ratio, while Hamilton (Street Railway) has a 45% farebox recovery ratio. The TTC has 72.8%. That's 72.8% paid by the TTC user. The rest is subsidy. (New York City is at 47%, Montreal is at 46%.) If the TTC had a higher subsidy (a lower FRR), maybe there would be a fare integration.

This is also why Ford Nation are idiots when it comes to public transit. The TTC and GO are already efficient when it compared with other North American cities. Especially when the TTC is very underfunded by the city and the province.

 

[Divas S.]

This is also why Ford Nation are idiots when it comes to public transit. The TTC and GO are already efficient when it compared with other North American cities. Especially when the TTC is very underfunded by the city and the province.

this is why wanted to NDP to win so bad (among other reasons) it could have made the TTC more normal. plus if nothing changes to subsidies I imagine that Mississauga might start to see their farebox ratio creep up as well with the LRT and increasing night bus routes bus alas, we're on the gravy train to uhmm... Oshawa?

 

[muller877]

MiWay has a 46% farebox recovery ratio, while Hamilton (Street Railway) has a 45% farebox recovery ratio. The TTC has 72.8%. That's 72.8% paid by the TTC user. The rest is subsidy. (New York City is at 47%, Montreal is at 46%.) If the TTC had a higher subsidy (a lower FRR), maybe there would be a fare integration.

If you look at the recovery ratios of other transit authorities there is a mix of what is included and what is not. But generally maintenance is included. Except the TTC. There is always a SOGR that comes from the capital fund which should be included as a subsidy in the farebox recovery ratio. TTC is way overstated.

 

[rbt]

If you look at the recovery ratios of other transit authorities there is a mix of what is included and what is not. But generally maintenance is included. Except the TTC. There is always a SOGR that comes from the capital fund which should be included as a subsidy in the farebox recovery ratio. TTC is way overstated.

Yep, since TTC finds it easier to get capital funds, they've become quite adept at packaging things like every-day escalator maintenance into bundles (say 30 stations at a time) which can be tendered out as a capital item.

 

[Jonny5]

If you look at the recovery ratios of other transit authorities there is a mix of what is included and what is not. But generally maintenance is included. Except the TTC. There is always a SOGR that comes from the capital fund which should be included as a subsidy in the farebox recovery ratio. TTC is way overstated.

No one has ever been able to confirm to me how the interest on borrowing is handled for all other organisations. The TTC conveniently does not borrow money at all, it gets other organisations to borrow money and pay all the interest for them (and so do other Ontario transit agencies) so it doesn't show up on their financial statements. The MTA frequently goes to market itself to borrow, and expenses those interest payments. Their financial statements clearly state they account for the debt interest in their calculated farebox recovery ratio and their annual interest payments are greater than the entire TTC budget. Without those they would be 70+% recovery ratio.

 

[ViveleCanada]

I honestly don't get the point of this, it doesn't work for anybody, and it surprises me how little people complain that TTC is the only GTA operator that doesn't have fare integration, if MiWay and Hamilton managed to fare integrate I seriously want to hear the excuses the TTC has in store.

Fare integration across GTA agencies is incredibly seamless. MiWay even accepts DRT transfers despite being literally across Toronto. Brampton ZUM also accepts all forms of YRT media as it crosses into Woodbridge to access VMC. I live near the border of York and Toronto so I have heard constant complaints for awhile about the lack of fare integration, especially York U students as they got hit the hardest when GO stopped going into the university. Metrolinx said that fare integration would happen in 2025, if I recall correctly. I wish I knew why it takes 6 years to change bus fares. Through my reading, The TTC seems to be the only Canadian agency with this weird fare rule. Back on topic with Presto, YRT is planning a "refresh" of Presto devices and software in 2020. Hopefully this means Presto was designed like Oyster which had the ability to be continuously upgraded.

 

[WillTo]

Check it out guys. I exceeded the 2 hours but it still counted as a transfer

8/23/2019 5:52:55 PM	1014	Toronto Transit Commission	Transfer	Regular	$0.00	$0.00
8/23/2019 5:43:23 PM	1013	Toronto Transit Commission	Transfer	Regular	$0.00	$0.00
8/23/2019 5:37:34 PM	1012	Toronto Transit Commission	Transfer	Regular	$0.00	$0.00
8/23/2019 3:52:18 PM	1011	Toronto Transit Commission	Fare Payment	Regular	$3.10	$10.20

 

[DSC]

Check it out guys. I exceeded the 2 hours but it still counted as a transfer

8/23/2019 5:52:55 PM	1014	Toronto Transit Commission	Transfer	Regular	$0.00	$0.00
8/23/2019 5:43:23 PM	1013	Toronto Transit Commission	Transfer	Regular	$0.00	$0.00
8/23/2019 5:37:34 PM	1012	Toronto Transit Commission	Transfer	Regular	$0.00	$0.00
8/23/2019 3:52:18 PM	1011	Toronto Transit Commission	Fare Payment	Regular	$3.10	$10.20

I bet there would have been (the usual) outrage here if you had been charged with cries for 'give us a minute or two leeway"! Now I await a flood of people testing the system to see if the 'free time' is 50 seconds, a minute, 2 minutes .....

 

[Johnny Au]

I bet there would have been (the usual) outrage here if you had been charged with cries for 'give us a minute or two leeway"! Now I await a flood of people testing the system to see if the 'free time' is 50 seconds, a minute, 2 minutes .....

I usually interpret the leeway as being within the minute. For example, if the initial fare payment were at 1:00:01 PM, then re-entering the system at 3:00:59 PM counts as a transfer, but if the initial fare payment were at 1:00:59 PM, then if one were to re-enter the system at 3:01:00 PM, then it is considered a new fare payment.

 

[Tuscani01]

I seem to have been given a free trip to Pearson last week. My account shows my $20 reload at Sherbourne station the day of my flight, but no record of my TTC fare or my UP Express fare. Both are shown on the return trip though.