Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

[cplchanb]

The tube uses a wide range of train types and sizes depending on the line no? Some are really small to fit in the 100+ year old tunnels.. but many are larger.

My understanding is that the Scarborough Subway is planned to be single bore. IIRC they need around a 10m radius to fit two TRs.

True, but even their largest tube trains pale in comparison to even the old M-1s. The observation that im trying to point out is that are we getting vehicles that are bigger, wider and longer than what we actually need/would fit our system better
just because we need to one up the previous gen?

edit: I guess the same can be said for the cars that we buy today vs 20 yrs ago. Minnows vs whales.

 

[Steve X]

I was referring to car length and now that you mentioned it, the overall dimensions. Our TR and T1 are both long and wide...much larger per car than the Montreal Metro and especially the tube. This drastically affects both the size and radii of the tunnelling which in turn affect overall cost. I marvel at how Londoners can make such a compact a tube car bigger than it actually is. Maybe if we slim down the DRL car sizes perhaps it can help save some money on the overall cost of construction and operations.

The TRs are just standard size. Many modern metro systems have them. I wouldn't call them large and long. TTC better off building a subway line that's compatible with rest of the fleet.

Love the Azurs. Rode them a few weeks ago. One thing newer train models like the Azur use is a convex shape, which bumps its width at seat height by about 15cm (compared with the 2.51m floor height). Marginal, but it does help cramming a few more riders in. One reason I like narrower trains is that it can reduce the infrastructure costs. Much (or all?) of Mtl's metro uses single bore design, something that would be a lot harder/$$$ with our hefty 3.14m monster.

Was under the impression the cars were shorter than a TR, and the train lengths were about on par with ours (under 150m). Not sure tho.

The cars are shorter with 3 doors only but the overall train length is longer.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I wonder how many people would notice the 11cm difference. Especially at the aisle between 4 seats. There isn't much difference in seating. Just doors at both side and cabs om both ends. Of course there shouldn't be any presto readers or fare vending machines as riders will buy their fare before hitting the platform. This should even out the loads as people can use all 4 doors oppose to rushing the middle 2 to get their fares. I don't expect them to ride differently than the current streetcars except there would be less swing without loops and tight curves on the Eglinton line.

I think Pretos Readers are very likely to be put on the crosstown lines but probably not the fare machines as every stop will probably have one at them.

 

[TransitBart]

I guess they were just trying to design something that would look like it belonged in Hamilton and Waterloo....ugh...I hear the designer uniforms they are getting made for the operators were inspired by the look of Imperial Officers from Star Wars...

WTF??? It looks like Grand Moff Tarkin should be standing there. I'd rebel if someone made me wear that.

 

[Andy T]

I think Pretos Readers are very likely to be put on the crosstown lines but probably not the fare machines as every stop will probably have one at them.

The underground portion would be the same as the subway where you will enter through a fare gate. The surface stops will probably be like GO/VIVA where you will have to tap on.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

The underground portion would be the same as the subway where you will enter through a fare gate. The surface stops will probably be like GO/VIVA where you will have to tap on.

I doubt it as they are pretty much just streetcar stops. To me it makes more sense to have the reader on the door of the train rather then on the platform because you can see it as you get n. Plus by the time it opens people will be used to it with buses and streetcars as you will need to tap onto them even in sations once Preto is fully in use in Toronto by the end of next year.

 

[TransitBart]

The underground portion would be the same as the subway where you will enter through a fare gate. The surface stops will probably be like GO/VIVA where you will have to tap on.

Somewhere in the world I have been in, the fare gates are at the end of the outdoor platforms at the crosswalk. You tap on like you do inside the subway station now to get onto the platform and you have to tap out when you exit. As @Andy T says, the underground portion is like a current subway station.

I sure as hell hope the system is as I have described. If people can't behave and pay on the honour system (and the streetcar system is proving to be a bit of a mess), then fare gates need to be installed at the end of each Crosstown platform.

In addition to its cost, it would add insult to injury to have widespread fare evasion. There simply needs to be no manner in which to get onto the system without paying.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Somewhere in the world I have been in, the fare gates are at the end of the outdoor platforms at the crosswalk. You tap on like you do inside the subway station now to get onto the platform and you have to tap out when you exit. As @Andy T says, the underground portion is like a current subway station.

I sure as hell hope the system is as I have described. If people can't behave and pay on the honour system (and the streetcar system is proving to be a bit of a mess), then fare gates need to be installed at the end of each Crosstown platform.

In addition to its cost, it would add insult to injury to have widespread fare evasion. There simply needs to be no manner in which to get onto the system without paying.

The only problem with putting fare gates out on the street is they would be more suitable to vandalism plus whatever weather conditions they will bein. Road salt also take it's toll on metal as well just from poel walking through slush. alos poel could just walk around them crossing the tracks which they will likely do anyway as they seem to do it on every other street right of way in the city. As I said before people will also be used to using preto on buses and streetcars once this comes on line. Yes they may be some fare evasion but the TTC feels that most poel will be caught if they have to exit at at stion.Plus they could alos just have fare inspectors at the stops them selves. I've been asked by them a couple of times getting off of one at stops to show a proof of payment.

 

[TransitBart]

The only problem with putting fare gates out on the street is they would be more suitable to vandalism plus whatever weather conditions they will bein. Road salt also take it's toll on metal..

This is what stainless steel is for. If I recall, there was a roof over the faregates and a fare dispensing machine at each entrance / exit.

I'd electrify the gate too. After all, you only need to tap your PRESTO card. No need to touch the gate.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

This is what stainless steel is for. If I recall, there was a roof over the faregates and a fare dispensing machine at each entrance / exit.

I'd electrify the gate too. After all, you only need to tap your PRESTO card. No need to touch the gate.

I think you would have just as much fare evasion no matter what type of gates you put at them. There are two open ends of them plus they will be at pedestrian crossings. I really don't think people will line up in the middle of the street to tap a presto card on a fare gate at a glorified streetcar stop.

 

[Voltz]

I doubt it as they are pretty much just streetcar stops. To me it makes more sense to have the reader on the door of the train rather then on the platform because you can see it as you get n. Plus by the time it opens people will be used to it with buses and streetcars as you will need to tap onto them even in sations once Preto is fully in use in Toronto by the end of next year.

It's been stated before that fare payment will be at the surface stops, which are not pretty much just streetcar stops. Just put the presto readers near the end of the platform that riders enter from and they can easily tap at they pass by. Installing presto readers on on board would require 12 readers per LRV. rather than just maybe two per surface platform.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

It's been stated before that fare payment will be at the surface stops, which are not pretty much just streetcar stops. Just put the presto readers near the end of the platform that riders enter from and they can easily tap at they pass by. Installing presto readers on on board would require 12 readers per LRV. rather than just maybe two per surface platform.

I still say it makes more sense to have them in the cars as people can forget to tap on at a reader out on the street. Plus as I said before people are going to be used to doing it for streetcars by the time it's open so why this Bea different system then it is.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I just find it really odd that Viva doesn't have presto readers on the bus as every other bus has them in them. It makes more sense to me to pay my fare on the vechle when I board it outside of the a station. Go transit is different as everyone has to go past a presto reader when they come into a station to board or leave a train. Plus they aren't as frequent as these will be. Do you really think that someone who is in a hurry to get on board is going to stop and tap their card at a reader off of the train? Remember most people in Toronto don't know the difference between a streetcar and an LRT. They will look at it and say its the same thing as the streetcars.

 

[Steve X]

I just find it really odd that Viva doesn't have presto readers on the bus as every other bus has them in them. It makes more sense to me to pay my fare on the vechle when I board it outside of the a station. Go transit is different as everyone has to go past a presto reader when they come into a station to board or leave a train. Plus they aren't as frequent as these will be. Do you really think that someone who is in a hurry to get on board is going to stop and tap their card at a reader off of the train? Remember most people in Toronto don't know the difference between a streetcar and an LRT. They will look at it and say its the same thing as the streetcars.

It makes absolute perfect sense. This allows fare inspectors to fine people right on the platform. I have heard people getting a fare evasion ticket for simply waiting for a bus with friends. It discourages fare evasion as there is no way you can pay on the bus. It avoids the situation that people only pay when they see inspectors.

People in many LRT systems requires people to tap before they board. It simply takes a second to tap. This also prevents jaywalking and cutting across traffic as the readers are only located at the entrance side connecting to the intersection. If people can't tell where they are, they deserve a ticket. There's enough fare evaders on the streetcar already.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

It makes absolute perfect sense. This allows fare inspectors to fine people right on the platform. I have heard people getting a fare evasion ticket for simply waiting for a bus with friends. It discourages fare evasion as there is no way you can pay on the bus. It avoids the situation that people only pay when they see inspectors.

People in many LRT systems requires people to tap before they board. It simply takes a second to tap. This also prevents jaywalking and cutting across traffic as the readers are only located at the entrance side connecting to the intersection. If people can't tell where they are, they deserve a ticket. There's enough fare evaders on the streetcar already.

I guess they must be more respectful then the people in Toronto who use the streetcar right of way cto criss cross the street. Plus if the way that streetcar platforms get crowded is any indication tapping into a reader at any part of the platform is going to be next to impossible. it really wouldn't surprise me at all if they do just put readers on the cars to avoid having problems with people saying I couldn't get to a machine so I figured I could ride for free.