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Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

crs1026 said:
All of these approaches work just fine. The problem is when the same system mixes them in together. I tap on board on Spadina but I don't on Eglinton? Fare gates at Dufferin but no fare gates at Cedarvale?
The system needs to be built with the user in mind - keep it simple and consistent.

- Paul
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That's what my thinking is too by the time this comes online poel will be used to tapping on the new streetcars. Why confuse everyone with something else just because other cities do it with their systems doesn't mean we have to do the same or can't do something different.
 
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Red October said:
When I used it they had security at the platform, but I imagine there's also POP.

It's just another level of "pay here" than just having an open platform with a card reader located somewhere, or a bunch of them on a train where you'd get the same problem.
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Unless security is there all the time the system is operating, totally useless. If there is no stiff fine for fare evasion, again not worth it.

In the US you pay your fare at the platform if there is a fare machine there.

The systems in Europe I saw have one on the car or the platform. Some had both. TTC has both on the 509/510 with some platforms having no fare machine.

Collecting the fare is a costly item for fare machine on the platforms.

Until there is a better way that fares are not require, you will find people trying not to pay a fare and having people enforcing the payment of fares. TTC is currently seeing a higher lost of fare do to lack of enforcement for the POP system. One only has to watch the various doors to see it, especially 510.
 
drum118 said:
Unless security is there all the time the system is operating, totally useless. If there is no stiff fine for fare evasion, again not worth it.

In the US you pay your fare at the platform if there is a fare machine there.

The systems in Europe I saw have one on the car or the platform. Some had both. TTC has both on the 509/510 with some platforms having no fare machine.

Collecting the fare is a costly item for fare machine on the platforms.

Until there is a better way that fares are not require, you will find people trying not to pay a fare and having people enforcing the payment of fares. TTC is currently seeing a higher lost of fare do to lack of enforcement for the POP system. One only has to watch the various doors to see it, especially 510.
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I see it happening much more on spadina then anywhere else. It also seems to be only certain groups of people. Most people I see get on them do tap a presto card or go to the fare machine on board. I have also on occasion helped people use them as they can be a bit tricky to operate. Also i do see people who get off and get back on again to pay their fare if they couldn't get to the machine when they got on or they will wait on board to do it as well.
 
Steve X said:
People in many LRT systems requires people to tap before they board.
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That's how it works in Dublin's trams - you either buy a paper ticket before you board from a nearby retailer - machine at busier stops, or tap on/off the local Presto equivalent at stop validators. Found with no tap or no ticket on board, then it's a "standard fare" of 45 Euros. However, there are persistent complaints that people who look like they might be "difficult" are not sought out by inspectors, especially on Line A.
 
Based on a German model (it's a US branch that produces this), the US is well ahead of us yet again in transit. Being behind Europe on this is understandable, but being so far behind the US? It's embarrassing, to say the least. SD have also used the ticket machines on the platform and POP on demand, and have done so for well over a decade (LA and SD use the local Sheriff department as fare checkers, or at least have at times, since they often submit the lowest and/or best bid for enforcement)(Sheriff's deputies are much more accountable by law, and are armed)

Note: "moovel will also receive a 4% commission on sales." Compare that to Presto! (A whole discussion in itself)

w_Tro_CovCtrII.jpg

MTS Board Approves New Mobile Ticketing Solution
Thursday, April 14, 2016

San Diego – The San Diego Metropolitan Transit System (MTS) achieved a milestone for the next generation of fare collection on Thursday when the MTS Board of Directors unanimously approved a contract with moovel North America (formerly known as GlobeSherpa) to implement a new mobile ticketing solution for passengers.

“Nearly 70 percent of our customers carry a smart phone and two-thirds of them said they would likely use mobile ticketing if it were available,” said MTS Chief Executive Officer Paul Jablonski. “Mobile ticketing speeds up the boarding process, and puts the ticket vending machine in the pocket of our passengers. It will make riding transit in San Diego much easier and convenient in the future.”

Pending approval by the North County Transit District (NCTD) Board of Directors next week, MTS and NCTD will enter a cost sharing agreement for the contract with moovel for developmental costs and annual maintenance costs. The six-year agreement includes a three-year base period and three 1-year options totaling $347,500. moovel will also receive a 4% commission on sales.

moovel N.A. is a Portland, Oregon, is a-based software company that enables seamless multimodal experiences and connected transit commerce through mobile applications. They have partnered with other transit agencies across the US to employ mobile ticketing including TriMet (Portland, Ore.), Virginia Railway Express (Washington, DC-Virginia Region), Chicago Transit Authority (Chicago, Ill.), San Francisco Municipal Transportation Authority (San Francisco, Calif.), and METRO Houston (Houston, Tex.).

“We believe mobile is the future of transit and we are thrilled to be selected by the San Diego Metropolitan Transit System (MTS) as their mobile ticketing partner,” said Nat Parker, CEO of moovel North America. “moovel strives to be the most innovative provider of mobile ticketing software through our moovel transit platform. MTS is leading the way by embracing these technologies, and we look forward to providing their riders with an easier commute.”

All passes, including, but not limited to Regional Day Passes, Regional Plus Day Passes, Monthly and 30-day Passes and one-way tickets, will be offered and accepted on both bus and rail services. The goal is to have the new mobile ticketing app functional by August, in time for the San Diego Chargers NFL season. Highlights about how mobile ticketing will benefit passengers include:

  • Allow passengers to purchase a fare and ride at any time
  • Full compliance with Payment Card Industry (PCI) Data Security Standards for secure credit card transactions
  • Integration between NCTD and MTS services for easier transfers between systems
  • Multiple tickets and passes can be stored on one phone making it easy for families and friends traveling together
  • Multiple tickets and passes can be stored for future use, making the app function as stored value
The mobile ticketing agreement comes after a three-year mobile ticketing pilot program for special events served by the Trolley. Since the pilot program was implemented, total mobile ticketing transactions climbed sharply from 7,500 in 2013 to 18,600 in 2015. Pending NCTD Board approval, the new mobile ticketing service will be available for nearly all rail and bus services in the MTS and NCTD systems. To review the agenda item visit the MTS Meetings and Agendas web page.

About MTS:

MTS operates 95 bus routes and three Trolley lines on 53 miles of double-tracked railway. Every weekday more than 300,000 passenger trips are taken on MTS bus and Trolley services. MTS set a new record in FY 2015 with 96.7 million riders. For more information on how you can use public transportation and save money, go to www.sdmts.com.

About moovel N.A.:

moovel N.A. LLC, a part of moovel Group GmbH, enables seamless multimodal experiences and connected transit commerce through mobile applications. The moovel transit platform, formerly GlobeSherpa’s TransitSherpa platform, is a suite of white-labeled mobile ticketing and payment solutions for the most innovative public transit authorities in North America. Led by CEO Nat Parker, moovel is headquartered in Portland, OR with a second office in Austin, TX. For more information, please visit www.moovel.com/US.
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https://www.sdmts.com/inside-mts/news-release/mts-board-approves-new-mobile-ticketing-solution

From moovel's German website (selected in English)
With transportation on the edge of disruption, Daimler, the company that invented the automobile in 1886 and owns Mercedes-Benz, founded moovel to reinvent the concept of urban mobility. At moovel, we aim to discover how new technologies will affect the way we move tomorrow and connect the ever-changing state of urban transportation.

moovel offers new ways to connect the urban mobility ecosystem with our three complementary products: moovel app, moovel transit and RideTap.
[...all three described and illustrated at length...]
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https://moovel-group.com/en
 
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There is a lot of time for a new Metrolinx livery and not worth the time worrying about a test model that plain looking. Sit back and wait for the true livery to show up. Then you can bitch about it then, depending on what it looks like.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Why did the TTC stop painting their underground fleet?
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Aluminum construction. Even with the old Gloucester cars, a few were built in aluminum, and not painted. Aluminum forms its own patina. For steel, that's known as rust.

Since that time, powder coating has become the norm for panel paint, or binary paint both work well on aluminum if it is treated before painting, but there's also cost involved in painting...and we don't want Mr Tory getting upset about that. There's subways to nowhere to build, and expressways...

Edit to Add:


Actually, there was a pair of H-1 cars that were painted in Gloucester red. For more on this story, consult the Interesting H1 Series Facts section of the H-1 Subway Page.

Why doesn't the TTC paint its newer subway cars, like it did with the Gloucesters?

The answer is money. The fact is that it costs the TTC a fair amount of money to maintain paint schemes and, if the TTC can eliminate this expense, they will.

The better question to ask is why the TTC bothered to paint the Gloucesters, and the answer to that was because the Gloucester's bodies were made of steel. Thus, the paint represented a necessary step to protect the Gloucester bodies from rusting. Even with the paint, the Gloucesters stored at the Halton County Railway Museum do show a little sign of rust. The bodies on the TTC's later cars were made of aluminum, which don't corrode as readily.

So, why are the TTC's surface vehicles painted? One answer is probably visibility and identity; customers are happier if they can see the bus or streetcar coming and the paint scheme identifies the transit agency operating the vehicle. This is less of a concern on the subway, of course, where there is no competing vehicular traffic and road conditions. Also, the surface vehicles are made primarily out of steel, and face harsher conditions that can corrode their bodies. The paint helps to protect against that.
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http://transit.toronto.on.ca/subway/5002.shtml
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Why did the TTC stop painting their underground fleet?
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Dont worry, knowing the TTC they will come up with some ugly wrap for both the T1's and TR's. The B-D line will probably seem some bright green wraps with a giant 2 on it, while the Y-U-S line will have some ugly florescent yellow wraps with a giant 1 on those trains.

But I digress, it's a good thing the TTC has no control over the livery that will be used on the Crosstown LRV's because who knows what kind of off-putting scheme they would come up with.
 
Just noticed that the Hurontario LRT Facebook and Twitter accounts now use the pictures of a LRV with the grey livery. Interestingly, the contract for the vehicles hasn't been given to Bombardier.
 
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