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Join Israel boycott, CUPE tells members

Wow, I guess that means their foreign policy is pleasant, friendly and enjoyable too.
Not necessarily. My comments were of my first hand experience in the country, thus questioning those who say it's a violent, militaristic regime. I was there, and saw neither.

As for foreign policy, if my neighbours wanted me dead, and have tried multiple times to kill me, and I have no one to help me, I'd have a gun or two in the house too, and would make sure the neighbours knew I could and would use it.
 
Wow, I guess that means their foreign policy is pleasant, friendly and enjoyable too.

Not necessarily. My comments were of my first hand experience in the country, thus questioning those who say it's a violent, militaristic regime. I was there, and saw neither.

Kind of like the States. I take a lot of issue with their foreign policy, and with aspects of domestic policy. However, most Americans are pleasant and friendly, as I last experienced last weekend visiting several US cities in the Great Lakes region.

That's kinda how I feel about Israel - I do not like the occupation of Palestine and particuarly the illegal settlements and the unilaterial decisions such as the routing of the wall. On the other hand, I'm sure if I visited the country I would have a similar experience as yours, AdA.
 
Ada, IMO, the average person in any country wants only to securely feed, clothe and house their family, live in safety and enjoy life as they see fit. In this, Israelis, Palestinians, Canadians and Americans share a common view.

It is the politicians and the cultural/religious/industrial leaders that bring us to war. The common folk just want to live life uninterrupted.
 
We must remember that it was the Palestinian Arab's as well as surrounding Arab states' rejection of the November 1947 United Nations Partition Plan that started much of the trouble. The very day Israel was created in November 1947 the neighbouring Arab states and Palestinians attacked Israel's Jewish population.

Yet a return to the 1967 borders, which would give Israel much more land than the initial partition would have, is unacceptable to them. Why?

What happened in 1947 is largely irrelevent, we need a solution now and the occupation much end. Not only for the Palestinians but to eliminate it as a motivation for the Islamic terrorism we're dealing with today.
 
What happened in 1947 is largely irrelevent, we need a solution now and the occupation much end. Not only for the Palestinians but to eliminate it as a motivation for the Islamic terrorism we're dealing with today.
Agreed the Palestinians need help, but you can forget about the end of the occupation making any difference to Islamic terrorism. These folks don't hate the west because of the Palestinian's plight nor with the west's association with Israel. IMO, the Islamic terrorism movement is much like any other violent group, from the Tamil Tigers to the Nazis, it's about local charismatic thugs finding a people in poverty, dispair and looking for the reason for their situation and someone to answer it.

Thus, you live in abject poverty, or see millions of others as such, in a slum in Egypt, and a rich Yemeni-born Bin Laden tells you this is all about a war with the west, and sure the Palestinians will be used as an excuse, but once they're dealt with, they'll be another, and another excuse to keep the terrorists motivated.

We must help the Palestinians because it's the morally right thing to do, without connecting it to the greater role of preventing global Islamic terrorism. The first is laudable, the second impossible.
 
Thus, you live in abject poverty, or see millions of others as such, in a slum in Egypt, and a rich Yemeni-born Bin Laden tells you this is all about a war with the west, and sure the Palestinians will be used as an excuse, but once they're dealt with, they'll be another, and another excuse to keep the terrorists motivated.

And that is why Isreal will be blamed years to come for all the problems of the Palestinians (and I am not saying Isreal is innocent). Neighbouring nations supposedly friendly to the Palestinians don't want the question raised as to why some of them are so well off while others are so poor, or why most of those governments run dictatorships of many different types. That would be a lightning rod issue for all Arabs, wouldn't it? Isreal is convenient because it affects Palestinians. However, eighbouring governments, including many repressive dictatorships, would suddenly be in the spotlight if the glare were taken off Isreal. People like Chomsky tend to gloss this over.

We don't see Bin Laden or his ilk strapping on a bomb, do we? It is so much easier to con the disposessed into doing that type of thing.
 
Agreed the Palestinians need help, but you can forget about the end of the occupation making any difference to Islamic terrorism.

Not in the short-term. Terrorists don't just suddenly become flower children... that's why prevention is the best strategy. Every new Palestinian born in a refugee camp, seeing homes around him bulldozed, having friends and family killed, going through the daily humiliation of check-points is at a high risk of becoming a terrorist.

These folks don't hate the west because of the Palestinian's plight nor with the west's association with Israel.

This is based on what? Soon after 9/11, Osama announced his three beefs: the Palestinian occupation, the presence of US troops in the Middle East and the propping up of puppet regimes. Of course, if you get your news from Fox or take Dubya's word for it, you'll take the "they hate us for our freedom" view.

And that is why the Isreal will be blamed years to come for all the problems of the Palestinians (and I am not saying Isreal is innocent).

Uh, the occupation is real, not some abstract concept. Who should be blamed, the Belgians?

Neighbouring nations supposedly friendly to the Palestinians don't want the question raised as to why some of them are so well off whiles others are so poor, or why most of those governments run dictatorships of many different types. That would be a lightning rod issue for all Arabs, wouldn't it?

It already is. The corrupt regimes in the Middle East are a major sore point among many Arabs. But you can't say anything or you end up in jail or dead.

Isreal is convenient because it affects Palestinians. However, eighbouring governments, including many repressive dictatorships, would suddenly be in the spotlight if the glare were taken off Isreal. People like Chomsky tend to gloss this over.

That's true, but I don't think Chomsky has any love for despotic regimes in the Middle East. And whether or not Arab governments take advantage of the occupation is really a secondary issue, the primary issue is that the occupation is wrong and must end.

We don't see Bin Laden or his ilk strapping on a bomb, do we. It is so much easier to con the disposessed into doing that type of thing.

Well, it wouldn't be much of an organisation if the leadership or masterminds killed themselves. Of course, it's true, these terrorist groups prey on angry, vulnerable people. Their task of recruiting people would be a lot more difficult if there weren't so many motivating factors. As things stand now, it's really an easy sell.
 
Every new Palestinian born in a refugee camp, seeing homes around him bulldozed, having friends and family killed, going through the daily humiliation of check-points is at a high risk of becoming a terrorist.

Their culture of death-worship doesn't exactly help either.

This is based on what?

Bin Laden's announced intentions of reforming the Caliphate, and putting the world under Shari'a law. It sounds bizarre, but they really believe this stuff.

Kevin
 
Let's assume Israel does what many folks want and completely withdraws to pre-1967 borders, and West Jerusalem is made into an international city. Israel builds its security wall on its side of the pre-1967 borders, and completely seals off its territory from the new Palestinian state. The West Bank is now the independent republic of Palestine.

Now what? How are these Palestinians going to feed themselves? They don't have any employment opportunities (you can forget about Israel opening the border to Palestinian labour, those days are done), no agriculture, limited water supplies and likely a corrupt Hamas led government. Is it now Canada and the West's responsibility to funnel taxpayer dollars into aid packages to the Palestinians? This could go on for generations and still there would be no Palestinian industry, limited agriculture and few private sector employment opportunities. The west would be better off financially by taking all 500,000+ Palestinians and accepting them as refugees, say 20,000 per UN refugee-signatory country?
 
This could go on for generations and still there would be no Palestinian industry, limited agriculture and few private sector employment opportunities. The west would be better off financially by taking all 500,000+ Palestinians and accepting them as refugees, say 20,000 per UN refugee-signatory country?

So, in other words, the Palestinians have no way of ever forming a viable state, and they should be eliminated as a nation. I hope you realize how extreme your view is.
 
So, in other words, the Palestinians have no way of ever forming a viable state, and they should be eliminated as a nation. I hope you realize how extreme your view is.
How can they form a viable state? They're in the middle of the desert, with no resources or products to sell, no employment and a shrinking water supply. The alternative to rescuing these folks and moving them elsewhere is to say, well you've got your independent state, and leave them to starve and/or fight internally...or...we throw billions of taxpayer dollars into the pit to prop up the new state, which would still collapse the moment the tap was turned off.

I would agree with your statement, the Palestinians have no way of ever forming a viable state.
 
How can they form a viable state? They're in the middle of the desert, with no resources or products to sell, no employment and a shrinking water supply. The alternative to rescuing these folks and moving them elsewhere is to say, well you've got your independent state, and leave them to starve and/or fight internally...or...we throw billions of taxpayer dollars into the pit to prop up the new state, which would still collapse the moment the tap was turned off.

People have lived here since Biblical times but now Middle East expert Abeja has declared the land unliveable. Quick, everyone out of Bethlehem!
 
People have lived here since Biblical times but now Middle East expert Abeja has declared the land unliveable. Quick, everyone out of Bethlehem!
Okay, okay. Tell us, how will the Palestinian state be viable? They can't even run Gaza without going finanically bankrupt without western aid, and then they go and lose the aid by electing Hamas as their representatives.

Israel itself is viable mostly due to its very strong trade, financial and political ties to the USA. Who will be the Palestinian's rich uncle? The Arab people are amoungst the world's richest in wealth and resources, and yet do nothing for the Palestinians.
 
"Tell us, how will the Palestinian state be viable?"

We may just have to wait until after the next big war.
 
We may just have to wait until after the next big war.
Jordan is America's friend, Lebanon is finally becoming stable, Egypt wants tourists not terror and Syria is on the USA's post-Iraq hit list. Meanwhile Irsael has never been more militarily powerful. There is little likelihood of another big war involving Israel or its neighbours, so if the Palestinians are hoping that will help them, they can forget it.
 

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