CapitalSeven
Senior Member
I still dream there is a secret HFR RER HSR Missing Link table going on behind the scenes. Report will be under my tree in just 5 days.
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High Speed Rail: London - Kitchener-Waterloo - Pearson Airport - Toronto
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I think you will now see a Lon/KW/Pearson/Toronto HSR line going ahead probably under construction within 5 years.
It's not like the Tories would ideologically be behind it but to not build it would come at a very heavy political cost. Suburban Toronto and London & KWC are key battle ground areas that the Tories will need if they want to form government. All three areas have a record of vacillating between the Liberals and the Tories with London being slightly more centre-left and KW more centre-right. The next election won't be fought in the small town or downtown Toronto but in these areas. The NDP at this point are starting to {like their federal counterparts} look irrelevant and it's hard to say where the hell they will end up on the issue.
It's not like the Tories would ideologically be behind it but to not build it would come at a very heavy political cost. Suburban Toronto and London & KWC are key battle ground areas that the Tories will need if they want to form government. All three areas have a record of vacillating between the Liberals and the Tories with London being slightly more centre-left and KW more centre-right. The next election won't be fought in the small town or downtown Toronto but in these areas. The NDP at this point are starting to {like their federal counterparts} look irrelevant and it's hard to say where the hell they will end up on the issue.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I honestly don't think outside this sub the average person knows about RER. And while my family in London had heard about the proposed HSR, it was such a distant idea to them so as to be irrelevant.
I think the Tories are far more likely to can it all and expand the highways and make GO service hourly on all lines. That's apparently what they planned for under Hudak.
I think the Tories are far more likely to can it all and expand the highways and make GO service hourly on all lines. That's apparently what they planned for under Hudak.
TOareaFan
Superstar
This proposed HSR will do nothing for anyone in suburban Toronto though....so there is that.
mdrejhon
Senior Member
That said, there are spinoffs -- Electrified GO, electrified VIA -- many of which will run on the same HSR ROW -- and the Freight Bypass is important to all the above.
The question is really... "chicken or egg first?"
aka "...HSR to Kitchener because GO RER made it possible"
aka "...GO RER to Kitchener because HSR made it possible"
If one thinks of the larger infrastructure picture, both are kinda interdependent in elements.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I think the billion dollar question is about what the PCs will do in power. Are they even aware of the HrSR (it's not HSR) and how it meshes into the RER plan? I doubt it.
I am betting that they cut GO RER. And push the previous Hudak plan. And to make up for all that, they'll expedite a few LRT/BRT plans in places like Hamilton and London.
I am betting that they cut GO RER. And push the previous Hudak plan. And to make up for all that, they'll expedite a few LRT/BRT plans in places like Hamilton and London.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
The PC's have made it clear that increased service to Kitchener is a priority for them. Also, their Transport Critic Mike Harris (the 2nd worst Mike Harris to work at Queen's Park) is from Kitchener. But I can see the PCs throwing a wrench in most transit plans, which would really suck.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Has anyone ever explained how a HrSR (not sure what that means but don't want to get into a discussion about terminology so I'll adopt yours ) meshes with RER? The proposal on the table is a train that serves London-KW-Pearson-Union......yes it uses the same corridor as a proposed RER line....but the only station they have in common is Union....not sure how that is "meshing" with RER.
As for the Hudak plan....the only think that I heard about that was that it was focused around hourly 2 way service 7 days a week on the Non-Lakeshore GO lines.....gotta say, that would be sweet!
crs1026
Superstar
http://timhudak.ca/Meet-Tim/Whitepapers/million-jobs-plan-1
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...d-go-cancel-light-rail-plans/article18713802/
Well, he also promised a new Etobicoke-to-Scarborough subway and a single centralised transit operator. And cancelling the various LRT projects.
But yeah, regardless of party, extending the 12 lanes of 401 is a lot more profile out there than any flavour of intercity rail expansion.....for now. Ten years of incremental improvements however, might lead to the same thing. Otherwise we have to wait until the 401 is 12 lanes all the way to London....and congested.....before people will ask, is there an alternative?
- Paul
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...d-go-cancel-light-rail-plans/article18713802/
Well, he also promised a new Etobicoke-to-Scarborough subway and a single centralised transit operator. And cancelling the various LRT projects.
But yeah, regardless of party, extending the 12 lanes of 401 is a lot more profile out there than any flavour of intercity rail expansion.....for now. Ten years of incremental improvements however, might lead to the same thing. Otherwise we have to wait until the 401 is 12 lanes all the way to London....and congested.....before people will ask, is there an alternative?
- Paul
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Eglinton should be the one line Hudak does screw around with. It should be a full Metro from Kennedy to Renforth and not LRT and it is not to late to do precisely that. The LRT as opposed to a grade separated system more costly to run, has the least capacity, the slowest, the most unreliable, has the biggest impact on the current road itself, and has the worst frequency potential.
ShonTron
Moderator
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Wrong.
First of all, Hudak isn't Ontario PC leader anymore. Secondly, tunneled transit lines are more expensive to operate than surface LRT for the simple reason that tunnels need more maintenance.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
Sorry, I meat to say Brown.
I never said anything bout tunnels but would elevate the current non-tunnelled portions.
I never said anything bout tunnels but would elevate the current non-tunnelled portions.
kEiThZ
Superstar
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-speed_rail
It's the nature of rail and transit projects. With road construction, you understand the benefits and anticipate them. With rail or transit, you don't understand until it is in service.
That's unfortunately bad maths for a politician.
Liberals should have really pushed RER much more publicly.
Think about this: the PCs could cancel RER and get hourly service on all the GO lines and people will think they are geniuses.
As for the HrSR, I wonder if it's feasible without electrification. Then I can see a case under a Tory government. If electrification is a must, there'll be problems.
Urban Sky
Senior Member
I would go with the FRA regulations quoted in the Wikipedia article:
Wikipedia said:
Thus, Conventional rail would be everything up to 110 mph (176 km/h), Higher speed would be 111-125 mph (177-200 km/h) and High Speed would be 126 mph (201 km/h) and more. If you doubt this categorization, try to find any rail projects in North America with design speeds of 115-120 or 130-145 mph. In Germany, the limits would rather be 160 and 200 km/h (100 and 125 mph), as 160 km/h is the limit for the PZB train control system (the "Indusi" system implemented in Ottawa), while 200 km/h is the highest speed limit for trains passing at passengers waiting on platforms and level crossings of any sorts...
jje1000
Senior Member
More like quietly shelved months ago once the Liberals saw the price tag. I could see some discussions with VIA tangling things up but a complete lack of updates is suspect.