GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[Northern Light]

I actually like Jack Landau in my opinion, every time I’ve had a BlogTO article written on something I did he’s always asked for permission and more in-depth detail on anything I’ve made.

I don't dislike Jack............I do wish he would be more courteous in acknowledging when others break news before him, and when he utilizes their insights to inform his writing.

I'm glad you feel like he's treated you well.

The one that was posted today was written by Becky Robertson, who always writes the typical BlogTO garb

Jack is an Editor at BlogTO, not just a writer, he is responsible for more than his own content.

 

[Bojaxs]

REPEAT AFTER ME:

THERE WILL BE FREQUENT ALL-DAY EXPRESS SERVICE. How hard is this to understand???

Bro, calm down. Seriously.

Show me where MX stated this.

 

[Northern Light]

Bro, calm down. Seriously.

@reaperexpress is likely quite calm, if marginally exasperated.

Show me where MX stated this.

Where have they not stated this?

The original base service model for GO Expansion/RER has long been public and widely discussed including here on this forum.

The base model is service every 15M all-day on the Lakeshore corridor, with supplementary express service, and overlapping Niagara service west of Union.

***

Additionally, discussed here also is that the new service agreement taking affect in January actually envisions meaningfully higher levels of service.

Let me direct you to this post:

GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

If there was a times saving, cutting UPE stops would make sense. But really - 2 minutes? This isn't about speed. This is about trains being so over-crowded at times with commuters, that people travelling to the airport can't get on and have to wait. The obvious immediate solution is pricing...

urbantoronto.ca

It shows the modelling done for Union Station with service levels indicated.

The intention is for quite frequent service on the core of the network.

There are more posts on this point after, so don't just stop with the linked post, scroll forward a bit.

 

[reaperexpress]

Bro, calm down. Seriously.

Show me where MX stated this.

I'm simply frustrated about how you actively ignore all of the evidence and arguments that contradict your claims, and immediately proceed just repeat them unchanged. If you deny the existance of GO's expansion plans why didn't you say so? How am I supposed to know why you keep repeating your claims after they have been disproven? This is a discussion forum, so we're trying to have a discussion. If you ignore everything that contradicts your argument and proceed to repeat the argument unchanged, that's not a discussion. That's just shouting into the void.

I didn't think that the plans for all-day express service on LSW needed to be cited because it's been consistently stated in every RER or GO Expansion plan ever. Surely anyone making claims about GO Expansion on a publicly-visible transportation discussion forum has done enough research on it to know at least vaguely what it entails.

Here is the current business case, which took me literally ten seconds to find - far less time than took you to write all those posts.
https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/upload/v1667497052/Images/Metrolinx/GO_Expansion_FBC.pdf

 

[Allandale25]

My only comment on the above is that it will be fascinating when the final service plan is publicly released, one day, by ONExpress/Metrolinx for OnCorr. I know it will be reviewed and dissected in detail here (or the GO Electrification thread).

 

[chrisw]

Yeah, hopefully it gets released this year. Also excited to see the implementation timeline.

 

[Willybru21]

I don't dislike Jack............I do wish he would be more courteous in acknowledging when others break news before him, and when he utilizes their insights to inform his writing.

I'm glad you feel like he's treated you well.



Jack is an Editor at BlogTO, not just a writer, he is responsible for more than his own content.

View attachment 586892

Ah I see, I didn’t know about that part, thanks for the info!

 

[Bojaxs]

I'm simply frustrated about how you actively ignore all of the evidence and arguments that contradict your claims, and immediately proceed just repeat them unchanged. If you deny the existance of GO's expansion plans why didn't you say so? How am I supposed to know why you keep repeating your claims after they have been disproven? This is a discussion forum, so we're trying to have a discussion. If you ignore everything that contradicts your argument and proceed to repeat the argument unchanged, that's not a discussion. That's just shouting into the void.

I didn't think that the plans for all-day express service on LSW needed to be cited because it's been consistently stated in every RER or GO Expansion plan ever. Surely anyone making claims about GO Expansion on a publicly-visible transportation discussion forum has done enough research on it to know at least vaguely what it entails.

Here is the current business case, which took me literally ten seconds to find - far less time than took you to write all those posts.
https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/upload/v1667497052/Images/Metrolinx/GO_Expansion_FBC.pdf
View attachment 586923

Okay, my mistake. I was not aware that part of GO expansion meant running express trains form Clarkson every hour during off peak. Will this include express trains running to Clarkson during off peak hours? Wouldn't the LSW line have to be quad tracked in order to accommodate express trains running in opposite directions?

The fact that quite a few trains will be running past Mimico, Lakeview, etc. essentially goes back to my earlier suggestion of implementing European style "skip stops". Stations that not every train will stop at. Some people on this forum didn't like that suggestion.

 

[ARG1]

Okay, my mistake. I was not aware that part of GO expansion meant running express trains form Clarkson every hour during off peak.

Will this include express trains running to Clarkson during off peak hours? Wouldn't the LSW line have to be quad tracked in order to accommodate express trains running in opposite directions?

The fact that quite a few trains will be running past Mimico, Lakeview, etc. essentially goes back to my earlier suggestion of implementing European style "skip stops". Stations that not every train will stop at. Some people on this forum didn't like that suggestion.

Let's be absolutely clear here. What you see here is not a concrete service plan, and should not be taken as gospel. What we will see running on this line in 2030 will almost certainly be completely different, based off completely different assumptions. In fact I'm willing to bet that Clarkson will end up actually being a local stop, with all trains stopping at Port Credit instead (this is pure speculation however). Based off what we know, it will likely be a lot more frequent than this (with some numbers Metrolinx provided implying up to 5-6m off peak headways on some lines). This is compounded by DB's plan to not purchase EMUs, and instead solely purchasing Electric Locomotives, and matching the speed of EMUs by running smaller, but more frequent trains.

The points that you need to take away from this are:

A) There will be express services for those who need fast regional travel
B) We will be seeing a massive increase in headways. I wouldn't be surprised if those hourly and half hourly trains run every 10m or so. So no, especially on LSW and Kitchener, building new stations isn't going to slow down service for most people.

 

[Bojaxs]

Let's be absolutely clear here. What you see here is not a concrete service plan, and should not be taken as gospel. What we will see running on this line in 2030 will almost certainly be completely different, based off completely different assumptions. In fact I'm willing to bet that Clarkson will end up actually being a local stop, with all trains stopping at Port Credit instead (this is pure speculation however). Based off what we know, it will likely be a lot more frequent than this (with some numbers Metrolinx provided implying up to 5-6m off peak headways on some lines). This is compounded by DB's plan to not purchase EMUs, and instead solely purchasing Electric Locomotives, and matching the speed of EMUs by running smaller, but more frequent trains.

The points that you need to take away from this are:

A) There will be express services for those who need fast regional travel
B) We will be seeing a massive increase in headways. I wouldn't be surprised if those hourly and half hourly trains run every 10m or so. So no, especially on LSW and Kitchener, building new stations isn't going to slow down service for most people.

Thank you!
I totally agree. If we see more express trains running during off peak hours, than that should offset any potential slow downs via the introduction of new stations.

The reason I was initially against the idea of adding Lakeview to LSW, was because from an earlier discussion regarding Park Lawn. People were getting upset with me that I would suggest trains should run through Toronto stations in order to facilitate people travelling from outside the city.

 

[bpbpbpbp]

I'm a Kitchener rider and I love fantasizing about things that would never happen. Here's a useless talking point that I thought would be fun, what frequencies and levels of service would MX go for if it owned and had control of more parts of its network? How would MX improve things, tracks, infrastructure?

How would service look like going to Brampton and Kitchener? What would MX do to the Milton Line? How does the Niagara Falls service change? What does MX do with two branches into Hamilton?

Maybe I'm posting this in the wrong thread and its useless, but I just wanted to have some fun and see what you guys would do if it were a perfect world. But I'm not sure there is a UT GO fantasyland forum.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I'm a Kitchener rider and I love fantasizing about things that would never happen. Here's a useless talking point that I thought would be fun, what frequencies and levels of service would MX go for if it owned and had control of more parts of its network? How would MX improve things, tracks, infrastructure?

How would service look like going to Brampton and Kitchener? What would MX do to the Milton Line? How does the Niagara Falls service change? What does MX do with two branches into Hamilton?

Maybe I'm posting this in the wrong thread and its useless, but I just wanted to have some fun and see what you guys would do if it were a perfect world. But I'm not sure there is a UT GO fantasyland forum.

I mean we can see how GO Expansion is limited by it's owned corridors. Metrolinx will basically be running extremely frequent services on owned corridors and service levels will drop off a cliff outside of those areas.

If NA were like Europe with minimal freight rail service and passenger service dominating instead, things like 15-minute service to Hamilton Centre would easily be achievable.

That's not this world though, so no point dwelling on it too much.

 

[DopeyFish]

people are complaining about adding a station at lakeview while i want one at kipling

 

[Northern Light]

people are complaining about adding a station at lakeview while i want one at kipling

If Milton were 2-way, all-day, that Kipling station might be of use to you?

****

Kipling is roughly in the middle of Mimico to Long Branch and just over 2km from each, in theory, not an unreasonable spot, though a quick look-see suggests that sitting at the west end of the Willowbrook/Mimico yard may make its creation a bit messy.

 

[DopeyFish]

If Milton were 2-way, all-day, that Kipling station might be of use to you?

****

Kipling is roughly in the middle of Mimico to Long Branch and just over 2km from each, in theory, not an unreasonable spot, though a quick look-see suggests that sitting at the west end of the Willowbrook/Mimico yard may make its creation a bit messy.

yeah willowbrook certainly makes it complicated - iirc there's also some spurs for businesses that could be an issue too

but nah i'm south of kipling, it's more been a dream than anything because it's annoying getting to mimico and long branch stations.

theoretically for going downtown, the new park lawn station would be the preferred method for people in lakeshore village going on foot and to me that's just wild