GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Well, Minister Yakabuski is gone.... we'll see how his successor behaves.

I suspect ML (and the PC's) are having an "Oh, Sh**" moment with the file. Doug Ford was very clear on the campaign trail that Niagara GO was on. It's unlikely that he could walk that promise back all the way. Now that they have been briefed, they understand more clearly what that entails. Building infrastructure is detail driven and requires getting the hands dirty, and breaking a sweat. That gives politicians pause. So ML's best possible answer at this exact moment is is "Um.... um.......".

It's a good thing that they deferred their meetings - Del Duca probably would have gone ahead and winged it. Tory would have gone ahead and provided a million details, all of them written on a napkin and none technically valid. So far, the PC's are actually walking in a straighter line.

I have little faith that the PC's are even slightly less inclined to winging it, but at least for the moment the door is open to their taking a more reality-based approach to the file.

Time will tell.

- Paul

If this is the problem with the busiest corridor, can you imagine the issues with Stouffville, Barrie, Kitchener?

 

[steveintoronto]

I don't remember what string I posted the iPolitics piece on Yak's Konflikt of Interest in, but here's a cover of the story by the same author for Star:

Liberals may file complaint against Ontario minister
By MARIEKE WALSHiPolitics
Thu., Nov. 8, 2018

TORONTO — The Liberals say they’re considering filing a complaint with Ontario’s integrity commissioner against shuffled minister John Yakabuski.
Yakabuski was demoted from the transportation to the natural resources portfolio with no explanation on Monday. On Wednesday, iPolitics reported that his sister leads a major stakeholder association that lobbies both the transportation and natural resources departments.
Marlene Yakabuski is the president of the Ontario Road Builders’ Association (ORBA) and a senior executive at Bot Construction Group.
Asked about that connection, the premier’s office was reticent Tuesday to give any details about what, if anything, was being done to avoid a conflict of interest — only saying the minister has not been involved in files connected to his sister and the relationship was reported to the integrity commissioner.
The ORBA is registered to lobby the transportation and natural resources departments and bills itself as “the voice of the majority of road-building contractors who build and maintain both provincial and municipal roads, bridges, public transit systems, and core civil infrastructure.”
Interim Liberal Leader John Fraser said the government was not upfront with the public about the connection and how it’s being managed, given the minister’s responsibilities.
“They’re not being forthcoming,” Fraser said about the government’s terse statement. “When there’s no clarity and people are asking questions, then it tends to erode trust.”
[...]

https://www.thestar.com/ipolitics/f...-file-complaint-against-ontario-minister.html

I'm just shocked, so shocked I tell you....

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Quick question: What is the plan for Weston Station on the UPX once Mt Dennis is completed?

It would make sense for it to be converted into a GO-RER station, no? I realize that 2.65km between it and Mt. Dennis is not the longest stop-spacing, but we are talking about providing excellent transit service to a fairly dense (and working class) community which has otherwise geo-spatially drawn the short-end of the stick when it comes to access to the city's rapid transit network. My understanding is that the Weston Station has actually been well used by locals for getting downtown on the UPX (which caught me by surprise when I first learned of it given the initial fare cost).

 

[Bureaucromancer]

My understanding is that the Weston Station has actually been well used by locals for getting downtown on the UPX

It most definitely has been. While I agree in theory that removing Weston, especially if it can be replaced by something VIA also stops at furhter north, I suspect this will be a non-starter due to those Weston residents. If this is a discussion we end up being able to have it will come with electrification rather than Eglinton

 

[steveintoronto]

Just being at either Weston or Bloor at peak is indicative of just how popular Weston is. Sometimes getting on a SB at Bloor isn't possible, the train is full of obvious commuters from Weston (there's a distinctively different look to commuters vs. fliers).

All the more reason in my opinion to start considering using the usual pathways for UPX up to the airport cut-off for a commuter service that runs in-between the 15 min UPX interval but continues north beyond the cut-offs to Bramalea.

The present mid-day hourly diesel run to Mt Pleasant would continue, but run express from Bramalea (or wherever the new commuter on UPX runs to) to Union.

It may be deemed advantageous to electrify the adjacent tracks too where serviced by high-level platforms. Needless to say, the vehicles would be EMU with at least three sets of doors each side of the coaches.

 

[mdrejhon]

I like the idea, but logic takes over:

I suspect Weston will ever be a VIA stop because of Pearson Train Station. VIA (and Kitchener RER) will very likely be stopping there, and that solves the double-back problem.

Berthing a train limits the train throughput capacity, especially as more train services will whoosh past Weston at ever higher frequency as time passes. And you need to electrify to quicken the dwell (faster acceleration for all trains to free up platforms etc). When this all happens, electrification means Weston service will be so frequent (~5min or so) for surrounding residents, that a transfer is less painful -- and fare integration will probably be even more integrated by then. So money is better spent electrifying given Pearson Station.

By the time the whole shebang is electrified, the problem will have solved itself.

 

[steveintoronto]

Berthing a train limits the train throughput capacity, especially as more train services will whoosh past Weston at ever higher frequency as time passes.

There are presently three tracks that abut high platforms at both Weston and Bloor, soon to be four.

So money is better spent electrifying given Pearson Station.

I'd agree wholeheartedly. What's the word on the "Pearson Station"?

I see a branch off of the 'airport spur' that serves a commuter station on GTAA property, then continues to Bramalea. That airport station (the present one would remain used for the service it does now) would also be a GO hub for their two bus routes that presently serve the airport, so as to allow an 'open fare' transfer onward. Other buses would also serve it, Brampton and Mi-Way included.

If we wait for "Pearson Station" or overall electrification, we're going to be waiting a long time...

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Is there not a concern that having both a Mt Dennis and a Weston station on the UPX would render the service less effective due to added dwell time? That is why I suggested moving the stop onto the GO-RER service.

 

[nfitz]

I’m hoping the 2019 communications will be straight goods. But, this is ML after all.

Metrolinx has always needed politicians boot up their butt to actually deliver anything within any reasonable timeframe.

The level of systemic incompetence within the Doug Ford government that they still don't know what they are going to do 5 months after being elected is astounding. It's 1990-1995 all over again, when the Rae government did very little, and finally dreamed up some bigger plans around the 4th year of their mandate, with no time to implement them before the Conservatives arrived and cancelled everything.

I'm not sure why anyone has much faith that much will happen in the next few years. I think the best we can hope for is that Metrolinx's inertia will result in some of the currently planned work actually continue, with the political masters too busy texting pictures of their body parts to their young assistants.

 

[TransitBart]

Of cours

Is there not a concern that having both a Mt Dennis and a Weston station on the UPX would render the service less effective due to added dwell time? That is why I suggested moving the stop onto the GO-RER service.

Of course there is. But political considerations outweigh transit concerns. So the idea is a non-starter in the short run.

 

[TOareaFan]

There must be a way to speed up UP between stations and allow the total trip time to remain at 25 minutes even with the addition of the new station?

There are parts of the journey where the train is moving very slowly and yet the 25 minutes is achieved.

 

[steveintoronto]

There must be a way to speed up UP between stations and allow the total trip time to remain at 25 minutes even with the addition of the new station?

EMUs. And once it's added on the present UPX pathings, it can be extended from the airport spur before the present UPX station to a separate station on the GTAA land that GO, Mi-Way and Brampton buses/lrt loop at too, and then the rail perhaps extends to Bramalea at the minimum, Mt Pleasant at the max for RER service. Present UPC service would continue to present terminal, and diesel hauled to Mt Pleasant and later all-day Kitchener also kept or improved on.

The key is electrification, and the use of the present surplus high-platform facilities. Whether Bloor and Weston would have switched electrified options to the surplus platforms, or the entire line electrified is another question.

No matter how it's done, there's massive under-utilization of the Georgetown Corridor at this time.

 

[smallspy]

There must be a way to speed up UP between stations and allow the total trip time to remain at 25 minutes even with the addition of the new station?

There are parts of the journey where the train is moving very slowly and yet the 25 minutes is achieved.

Not without physics having a say in it. That said, the performance characteristics of self-propelled rolling stock will help mitigate that. 26 minutes is possible.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Will the USRC track upgrades make much of a difference? I know most of the travel time savings from that project are supposed to be on the east end of the USRC.. but still.

Does anyone know what to expect in terms of travel time savings in general from that project? I always found the 7 minute Union-Exhibition travel time to be rather ridiculous given how short a distance it is.

 

[gweed123]

Will the USRC track upgrades make much of a difference? I know most of the travel time savings from that project are supposed to be on the east end of the USRC.. but still.

Does anyone know what to expect in terms of travel time savings in general from that project? I always found the 7 minute Union-Exhibition travel time to be rather ridiculous given how short a distance it is.

That was my thinking too. Everything just crawls from Spadina all the way into Union. If you're able to speed that section up a bit, you've likely made up your extra dwell time. Same with the switch getting from the UPX spur onto the GTS corridor.

Overall though, I agree that swapping Weston for Mount Dennis makes total sense. Hopefully by the time the Eglinton LRT opens GO will be in the position to operate some kind of RER service along the Kitchener Line from Union to Bramalea, even if it's still running diesel trains. If that's the case, then 'dropping' Weston would be a moot point, since there would be an equivalently frequent service available.