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GO Transit: Service thread (including extensions)

TOareaFan

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I don't think there's any work on the UP Express corridor, I think it's just a congestion issue since UP Express has to share tracks with the LSW trains (they're detouring through the Junction).
That was the original speculation (which seemed bizarre), then there was speculation it was a crewing issue....but in this post it is explained there is actually signalling work going on.

https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threa...cluding-extensions.4952/page-845#post-1372810
 

ShonTron

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I don't think there's any work on the UP Express corridor, I think it's just a congestion issue since UP Express has to share tracks with the LSW trains (they're detouring through the Junction).

But the LSW trains will be using the Galt Sub, which is separate from the Weston Sub that UPX and Kitchener Line trains. It wouldn't explain the 10-15 minute delays to UP Express trains, unless they are once again forced to do that back and forth at Union Station they did in April.
 

ShonTron

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The theory of track congestion cited by Amnesia and the need for pilots citied above to explain UP Express delays are wrong.

They’re running from GO Platform 1 and running back and forth under the dank heritage trainshed.

Doing separate construction projects on Lakeshore East, Lakeshore West and at the UP Express Station was just simply pure Metrolinx brilliance.
 

smallspy

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The theory of track congestion cited by Amnesia and the need for pilots citied above to explain UP Express delays are wrong.

They’re running from GO Platform 1 and running back and forth under the dank heritage trainshed.

Doing separate construction projects on Lakeshore East, Lakeshore West and at the UP Express Station was just simply pure Metrolinx brilliance.

I'm very curious to see what they are doing and what's necessitated the cutting of service, as there doesn't appear to be any work scheduled on either the Lakeshore East line or the Weston and Pearson Subs.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

steveintoronto

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I'm very curious to see what they are doing and what's necessitated the cutting of service, as there doesn't appear to be any work scheduled on either the Lakeshore East line or the Weston and Pearson Subs.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Anne Marie Aikins states "signal work" for UPX, changing to "electronic type" (IIRC) from a vid she had on CP24...? I'll see if I can find and link.
 
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steveintoronto

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Moved from the Streetcar thread http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/ttc-streetcar-network.27667/unread to here:
@steveintoronto
Edit to Add: If GO won't run connecting buses from Sq One to Port Credit where one can continue heading east on the Lakeshore West service, at least inform Presto that if a passenger is using Presto to connect on Miway to PC, to allow the trip to be one continuous one on GO, plus the co-fare on Miway. I don't mind paying the co-fare if it saves over half an hour or more.
@jys replied:
As you say, a solution would be to extend the Waterloo/Guelph bus to Port Credit GO to connect to the frequent LSW Train. I could also see an extension to Kipling via Transitway once the hub there opens.

Long story short (and I still have the letter) it hit the National Post, and suddenly I had the head of GO bus operations phoning me to apologize profusely, straighten out his department, sent me the letter of apology, and $100 of Presto card time for my hassles.
@jys:
Do you still have the link to the article?

I am going to challenge Metrolinx on their bylaw (2A IIRC) that indicates they have to honour GO bus transfers through Pearson. I've posted the issue in another string at this site, with the applicable clause and reference.
Not allowing a transfer is an absurdity...and I'm being diplomatic. It's not only allowed from the Union end, but since it's actually backtracking, there's no additional charge Union to Bloor....but they do charge you for the added distance to Union! I also have an issue with that too according to their fare schedule, ("cheapest fare from point to point") but I digress...
@jys
Yeah that doesn't make any sense. Especially since the UP Express have more capacity at the airport than Union.
Have you ever tried going to Union from SQ1 via GO bus and then back tracking along UP? If so, what what the the cost of that v.s. Miway + TTC?
If you want to go via Renforth which seems to be the cheapest option at this point, you can always take 112 + subway or Eglinton bus + Weston bus.
--------------------------
As you say, a solution would be to extend the Waterloo/Guelph bus to Port Credit GO to connect to the frequent LSW Train. I could also see an extension to Kipling via Transitway once the hub there opens.
Initially the Guelph 29 was touted to run through from Sq One to Renforth, since an earlier iteration of the 29 used to run down to Cooksville GO, and ostensibly there was enough pad in the timetable to allow it. The K/W 25 was too tight. In the end, it must have been reconsidered and now the 40 is the only GO bus connecting Sq One and Renforth. If I implied running the 29 down to Port Credit GO, it wasn't my intention, albeit if they added a bus, that might be possible. What I'd suggest is the 34 being run through Sq One and down to PC, or an arrangement with Miway for one continuous fare.

@jys:
Do you still have the link to the article?
NatPost never took it to publication, just started investigating the story, and verifying my account. The Ont Transport Min had been contacted through Liz Sandals office in Guelph, where I was living at the time, and went straight to the top of Metrolinx to the bus operations manager. I'd provided all my research on the HTA and the load provisions annex. I forget the name of the reporter, she was amazingly thorough for the NatPost. I still have the correspondence. Sometimes it's just the threat of a story going public that gets the action.

@jys:
Yeah that doesn't make any sense. Especially since the UP Express have more capacity at the airport than Union.
Have you ever tried going to Union from SQ1 via GO bus and then back tracking along UP? If so, what what the the cost of that v.s. Miway + TTC?
Done many tedious times. It can take up to an hour longer, depending on time of day. It's the dreaded 21 bus, which often lives on the QEW for long stretches of time. Any bus that uses the QEW is prone to erratic run-time. It is the cheapest way, doubtless, but even though I shouldn't have to pay more, it's worth it to shorten the trip. I live steps from Bloor Station and Dundas West TTC.
@jys:
If you want to go via Renforth which seems to be the cheapest option at this point, you can always take 112 + subway or Eglinton bus + Weston bus.
lol...that's exactly the point! It would be *four* changes at that point, and take forever, let alone being stuck out in the elements, albeit I haven't been in the new Renforth Station, just through it on the 109 Express, which really moves, btw. Eglinton takes me to the Spadina subway to the Bloor Subway only to backtrack to Dundas West.

The solution is eminently simple: Either GO connects Sq One down to Kipling, which I believe is a theory of theirs, or allow transfer from the GO 40 to UPX at Pearson. Any semblance of an excuse otherwise disappeared when they merged (still not fully complete) UPX and GO ticketing and the Metrolinx Bylaw which covers them both.

Quick Google to make part of my case:

upload_2018-9-8_21-42-57.png

https://www.gotransit.com/static_files/gotransit/assets/pdf/Policies/By-Law_No2A.pdf

See also:
https://www.gotransit.com/static_files/gotransit/assets/pdf/Policies/By-Law_No2.pdf

Note para 4 above and the sub-clause. "the fare payable for each transit service shall be the lowest fare available for the trip, regardless of which transit service the passenger actually takes."

Since UPE as well as GO now come under this Bylaw, I'm being overcharged in two ways: Being charged for going to Union to get back to Bloor (at Dundas West), and/or not being allowed to travel through Pearson onto UPE to Bloor without paying an additional and new premium fare on UPE to Bloor, all the while being allowed to transfer to UPE from Union.

It's ludicrous...

Addendum:
The second GO route that connects Sq One with Renforth along the transitway that I couldn't think of in prior posts is 19:
https://www.gotransit.com/static_fi...ipPlanning/FullSchedules/01092018/Table19.pdf

This would be an opportune route to extend down to PC.
 

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jys

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Done many tedious times. It can take up to an hour longer, depending on time of day. It's the dreaded 21 bus, which often lives on the QEW for long stretches of time. Any bus that uses the QEW is prone to erratic run-time. It is the cheapest way, doubtless, but even though I shouldn't have to pay more, it's worth it to shorten the trip. I live steps from Bloor Station and Dundas West TTC.
Speaking of the 21 Milton Bus, why don't they end it at Port Credit to connect to the LSW Train? Given it's train-replacement nature (runs when Milton train doesn't run), it operates during off-peak hours when the LSW train has plenty of capacity. This way they could reduce resources required and make the trip more reliable.
 

APTA-2048

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I'm very curious to see what they are doing and what's necessitated the cutting of service, as there doesn't appear to be any work scheduled on either the Lakeshore East line or the Weston and Pearson Subs.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
CSAs were saying work at Guildwood GO was happening this weekend.
 

steveintoronto

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Speaking of the 21 Milton Bus, why don't they end it at Port Credit to connect to the LSW Train?
That's an excellent suggestion. First time I took it into Toronto, for some reason, I thought it did loop at PC, and then continue onto Union. There's so many permutations of the route though that I've lost track of them. It used to be the 21H Sq One to Union, now it's the 21P, and oddly it's a milk run, goes all over the place to drop off or pickup just a few people at Milton Line stations when the trains aren't running.

In fact, an old map does show the 21 doing a run to PC from Sq One at one time. Perhaps Miway objected?

My case (for the route described starting on a 29 from Guelph or 25 from K/W) is better served buying a paper ticket with my Presto card on the bus to my final destination, and doing the shortcuts however is best. At least that way I'm not charged a new separate fare when breaking travel on GO.

It might also be the best way to test going through Pearson from a 40 bus, best done later in the season when I won't be travelling with an expensive bike in case things get testy.

I'll dig some more on the 21 bus serving PC. Anyone have info on that?
 
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jys

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In fact, an old map does show the 21 doing a run to PC from Sq One at one time. Perhaps Miway objected?
I'll dig some more on the 21 bus serving PC. Anyone have info on that?
There does seem to be a capacity restraint at PC since there are only 5 bus bays there serving 19, 103, 23, 14 and 8. Maybe that's why.
 

steveintoronto

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There does seem to be a capacity restraint at PC since there are only 5 bus bays there serving 19, 103, 23, 14 and 8. Maybe that's why.
But it's not just PC missing a north/south connection. The next one going west is Oakville:

Port Credit, by virtue of being directly south from Sq One and very easy access to Hurontario (except for Miway 103 Express, which doesn't loop at Sq One for some odd reason) is an obvious missing link in the GO system. As much as the LSW line doesn't take me directly home, cycling up from Mimico or Exhibition still saves a lot of time, and for many others, it would save even more.

Sq One is like the middle of nowhere for many Torontonians. And for those in the West End of Toronto, it's a needless nightmare. It's faster to get to the core and North York than it is the west end.
 

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drum118

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There is no capacity restraint at PC, regardless of the number of bays, since all the route have different headways in the first place. 8 & 14 don't run Sunday, with hourly service on Sat. 8 has 25 minutes weekday and 14 has 35. 19 is about 14 minutes 7 days a week. 103 is every 10 minute weekday and 25 on the weekend. Even 23 is all over the place. At various times, you can have all 5 routes there at the same time since the headway line up then.

The 103 is a true grid route and needs to bypass SQ1, since it save riders 15 minutes not going there in the first place, when they have no need for it. I love that saving when bypassing SQ1, but will loose it once the LRT is up and running , since the 103 will disappear.

There needs to be more grid routes to service the Lakeshore line, as well other ones. There is no grid or a route that service Georgetown and the LSW, let alone Militon. Some of these needs to be GO routes, let alone local systems.

Getting to SQ1 from anywhere in Mississauga is a long ride, let alone from within Toronto. Looking at 25-35 minute trip from Islington, depending on which route you take. That not adding in the long wait time between buses if you miss the connection.
 

rbt

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CSAs were saying work at Guildwood GO was happening this weekend.

Yep. I went through that station and there were crews on both track 1 and 2 (though mostly 2).

All trains, both directions (including Via) were using track 3.
 

TOareaFan

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The 103 is a true grid route and needs to bypass SQ1, since it save riders 15 minutes not going there in the first place, when they have no need for it. I love that saving when bypassing SQ1, but will loose it once the LRT is up and running , since the 103 will disappear.
I occasionally connect to the 103 via BT #7 to get to PC (southbound at Courtney Park and return trip NB at Derry) it makes me laugh to think that this trip will likely take more time on the LRT than it currently does.
 

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