GO Transit Fleet Equipment and other

[steveintoronto]

^ RE: FLIRTs and diesel module: There can be between one and four diesel prime motors on those, not sure what they have on this particular model. That could/would be a massive factor if underpowered. Great for economy, but tough to get performance from just one prime mover. The consideration might have been to electrify later, or to add more muscle later. Cars can be added if more prime movers also added, only one module needed, but can be upgraded.

I see here that they have two:

The 130 km/h DMUs will have two Deutz TCD 16.0 V8 520 kW diesel engines complying with EPA Tier 4 Final emission standards housed in a centre module. The units provide ‘best-in-class comfort and acceleration’, Ritter said, with 224 seats with side tables and USB sockets, as well as an Americans with Disabilities Act toilet.

Stadler unveils TEX Rail Flirt DMU

USA: Stadler displayed its first US-built Flirt diesel multiple-unit at the APTA exhibition in Atlanta on October 9. Unveiling three of the six cars from the initial trainset, Martin Ritter, CEO of Stadler US, said it was the company's first 'self-propelled commuter rail train to be Federal...

www.railwaygazette.com

It may have been that since they were testing, one test is always to see what performance is with one prime motor down.

 

[cplchanb]

^ RE: FLIRTs and diesel module: There can be between one and four diesel prime motors on those, not sure what they have on this particular model. That could/would be a massive factor if underpowered. Great for economy, but tough to get performance from just one prime mover. The consideration might have been to electrify later, or to add more muscle later. Cars can be added if more prime movers also added, only one module needed, but can be upgraded.

I see here that they have two:

Stadler unveils TEX Rail Flirt DMU

USA: Stadler displayed its first US-built Flirt diesel multiple-unit at the APTA exhibition in Atlanta on October 9. Unveiling three of the six cars from the initial trainset, Martin Ritter, CEO of Stadler US, said it was the company's first 'self-propelled commuter rail train to be Federal...

www.railwaygazette.com

It may have been that since they were testing, one test is always to see what performance is with one prime motor down.

Take that "units provide ‘best-in-class comfort and acceleration" quote with a grain of salt since it only has to compete with a 70 year old relic AKA RDC and a spot of NS DMU.

 

[smallspy]

Really.....seems quite underwhelming to call a 2/8 powered bogie train a MU....one would expect at least 1/2 the bogies to be powered for MU

It still fits the definition though....

And for the record, they do offer the FLIRTs with as many as 4 powered trucks, depending on the length and what kind of performance the operator is looking to get out of them. Most only have two power trucks, but the 200km/h versions used in Norway use 3 powered trucks, for instance.

Dan

 

[dowlingm]

FLIRTs fall under FRA Alternate Compliance, which I assume are not yet reflected in Transport Canada regulations?

 

[cplchanb]

FLIRTs fall under FRA Alternate Compliance, which I assume are not yet reflected in Transport Canada regulations?

Well unless theres massive political pressure I doubt they will revise the tc regs anytime in hurry

 

[OCCheetos]

I'd say pretty good. But by Private Investment. And Private Investment infers 'consortium' and that infers sole contracting for rolling stock, which infers a company like Stadler (or Siemens or Alstom) being part of the consortium. As much as it appears to defeat the ostensible advantages of open sourcing, the latter is often a race to the bottom, not the top.

In Ottawa they got around this by procuring the vehicles as a separate contract from the rest of the upgrade works being done. For the Confederation Line they stuck with Alstom for consistency of course, and for the Trillium Line Stadler was selected nearly a year and a half ago to provide FLIRTs (well in advance of the final contract signing which hasn't even happened yet).

Doing it like this of course ensures that no 'consortium' has an advantage based on vehicle choice and ensures that the best most well-suited vehicle is selected for the project's needs.

Edit: It would be interesting to see if a DEMU version of the KISS is feasible featuring a double decker power pack car...

 

[cplchanb]

how much of the LSE and W are still accessible to freight traffic? Correct me if im wrong but isnt this whole premise on require TC waivers and reg changes because
the trains mix in with freight traffic? If we remove CN from the equation and have PTC would that solve the issue of having lightweight trains?

 

[nfitz]

how much of the LSE and W are still accessible to freight traffic?

All of it. I guess there's no need for freight to go on the GO Track east of Pickering ... but nothing stopping it - which if there's a switching error then still triggers the requirement, doesn't it?

 

[cplchanb]

All of it. I guess there's no need for freight to go on the GO Track east of Pickering ... but nothing stopping it - which if there's a switching error then still triggers the requirement, doesn't it?

sucks that even when theyre not using it at all CP and CN have public transit by the balls.... ?

 

[APTA-2048]

There are the rare couple of freight trains that travel on the Lake Shore East line in Scarborough.

 

[cplchanb]

There are the rare couple of freight trains that travel on the Lake Shore East line in Scarborough.

since ML owns the line they should just shut them out of it. Force them to make the bypass line

 

[steveintoronto]

^ Finding the waiver for the FLIRTs is proving elusive so far, I'll dig later. In Canada, it's the operator not the manufacturer who applies for the waiver. I've posted the relevant regs prior in other strings, I'll see if I can dig them out again. It's in one of the Acts and cited by Transport Canada.

Meantime: (and note conflicting info posted either prior or here on the TexRail model 'being same as OC Transpo one')

Stadler FLIRT
Derek Ellis

On May 3, 2018 the city announced it would be purchasing seven new Stadler FLIRT (Fast Light Innovative Regional Train) trains to be used on the Trillium Line after the completion of the Stage 2 upgrades. The new trains will be double the length of the existing LINTs and have approximately double the capacity. These trains will be used in a mixed fleet alongside the existing Alstom LINTs. During normal operations, six FLIRTs and one coupled pair of LINTs will operate on the mainline with one FLIRT kept as a spare. Due to their length, these trains can not be used on the Airport Spur as the platforms on the spur can only accommodate the shorter LINT trains.
The FLIRTs are driven by electric traction motors with power provided by the "Power Pack". The Power Pack is a special car located in the middle of each trainset that can contain up to 4 diesel generators which provide the electricity used to drive the train. Because of this diesel-electric design, when the Trillium Line is eventually electrified, the FLIRTs can be easily converted to fully electric trains by removing the Power Pack car and installing pantographs.
The trains will feature a total of 16 doors (8 on each side) with two doors per car. Each door will be equipped with a button to open them as with previous Trillium Line trains. The addition of another door on each car will greatly improve passenger flow in and out of the trains compared to the existing LINTs. Between each of the pairs of doors, there will be a large multi-user area on one side, allowing mobility aids as well as bicycles to be placed. There will also be more grab bars placed to provide better help and support to all standing passengers.
Like with all past Trillium Line vehicles, the FLIRTs will feature a spacious, low floor interior. Passengers will be able to walk from one end of the train to the other through articulated gangways (including through the Power Pack).
The trains will be partially built in Switzerland and are currently planned to be assembled in Ottawa. The FLIRT trains are anticipated to begin service in the Fall of 2021 following the completion of Stage 2.
[...]

The video above is of the same model of train that will be received in Ottawa, but operating in Texas for TEXRail, during train tests and trials. Note that the TEXRail train only has a single pair of doors per car, while the trains in Ottawa will have two pairs of doors per car. You can also see the diesel Power Pack unit located in the middle of the train.

Stadler FLIRT - O-Train Fans

On May 3, 2018 the city announced it would be purchasing seven new Stadler FLIRT (Fast Light Innovative Regional Train) trains to be used on the Trillium Line after the completion of the Stage 2 upgrades. The new trains will be double the length

www.otrainfans.ca

To anyone dissing these units, be aware that they are highly popular, and probably the largest seller of this configuration in the world. Their flexibility of operation is unrivalled at this time.

Also note those who talk of 'how few bogies are powered' that the powered axles are the same proportion as the UPX Nippon Sharyos, the difference being that the FLIRTs have Jacob Bogies on all but the ends.

I'll search for more explicit and definitive details later, including the actual prime movers on the OCTranspo and TexRail models.

It would be interesting to see if a DEMU version of the KISS is feasible featuring a double decker power pack car.

And DD coaches?

@OCCheetos : You have posted links to specs @ https://www.otrainfans.ca/future-fleet/stadler-flirt but links are now dead. Any new links that you know of?

 

[APTA-2048]

since ML owns the line they should just shut them out of it. Force them to make the bypass line

I think there is room for negotiation. The last couple of times I observed one was late evening on a weekend (possibly Sunday) and late night on a weekday. They could possibly operate a safe distance away from each other. These freight trains are also quite short.

 

[steveintoronto]

since ML owns the line they should just shut them out of it. Force them to make the bypass line

The terms of the sale enshrined running rights, albeit with regulatory provisos.

 

[OCCheetos]

Finding the waiver for the FLIRTs is proving elusive so far, I'll dig later. In Canada, it's the operator not the manufacturer who applies for the waiver. I've posted the relevant regs prior in other strings, I'll see if I can dig them out again. It's in one of the Acts and cited by Transport Canada.

There are some mentions about operational waivers in the Stage 2 report published by the city of Ottawa last Friday.

Meantime: (and note conflicting info posted either prior or here on the TexRail model 'being same as OC Transpo one')

They are similar except for interior layout and doors I think. I'm going to try to get more info about Ottawa's now that more info had been announced.

I'll search for more explicit and definitive details later, including the actual prime movers on the OCTranspo and TexRail models.

There are some details about the engines in the air quality assessment section of the Limebank EA appending. Not sure what there is though.

And DD coaches?

The KISS is just the double decker version of the FLIRT, so yes with the double decker coaches. AFAIK there isn't an example of a DEMU version of the KISS (yet).

@OCCheetos : You have posted links to specs @ https://www.otrainfans.ca/future-fleet/stadler-flirt but links are now dead. Any new links that you know of?

Looks like Stadler took it down but I've attached a copy of it.