GO Transit Fleet Equipment and other

[SaugeenJunction]

March 18
I am expecting to hear one day that GO Trains will increase from 12 cars to 14-16 cars since we aren't moving to EMU's

4115

Where did you hear that we aren't moving to EMUs? These new GO cars were ordered a while ago, not sure how it impacts EMUs.

 

[steveintoronto]

Where did you hear that we aren't moving to EMUs? These new GO cars were ordered a while ago, not sure how it impacts EMUs.

I had to read Drum's post a few times until realizing it's a subjective impression, and then I endeavoured to mentally dismiss it....until realizing that he might have a point.

Devil's Advocate asks: "Where is it written, signed and tendered that Electrification, let alone EMUs, are to happen"? Normally I wouldn't be so cynical, but I can't help but ask you: 'How's that "Agreement in Principle' with CN and the freight bypass coming along? You were convinced...a number of posters were.

So 'show me the money' with EMUs! Please...

These new GO cars were ordered a while ago, not sure how it impacts EMUs

And the CLRVs were supposed to be gone long ago too. What Drum is referring to is default, not design. And he might be right...prove him wrong. I'm hearing those crickets chirping again...

 

[M636RF]

Does anyone know how additional CEM cab cars GO is receiving? We're now up to 378.

 

[cplchanb]

Why hasn't bombardier attempted to develop an dmu or emu for north America? Knowing that go is moving to rer and the fra requirement is being lifted for the us it would be in their best interests to try to capture marketshare for lighter trains.

All bbr can do in na is make these gigantic behemoths that are slow lumbering beasts

 

[M636RF]

Why hasn't bombardier attempted to develop an dmu or emu for north America? Knowing that go is moving to rer and the fra requirement is being lifted for the us it would be in their best interests to try to capture marketshare for lighter trains.

All bbr can do in na is make these gigantic behemoths that are slow lumbering beasts

Bombardier recently signed a deal with NJT for Multilevel EMUs (which SEPTA may eventually buy as well). These sets mix powered trailer cars and unpowered cab cars. I suspect that it would be possible to create a similar EMU set based on the Bilevel design. With the FRA standards amended, BBD might also be able to sell Twindexx and Talent type trains in the US, although Transport Canada has yet to follow in the FRA's footsteps (so these trains aren't currently able to operate in Canadian mixed traffic operations).

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[dowlingm]

With the FRA standards amended, BBD might also be able to sell Twindexx and Talent type trains in the US

SBB have not been happy with their Twindexx... might need to be careful what we wish for.

 

[smallspy]

Why hasn't bombardier attempted to develop an dmu or emu for north America? Knowing that go is moving to rer and the fra requirement is being lifted for the us it would be in their best interests to try to capture marketshare for lighter trains.

All bbr can do in na is make these gigantic behemoths that are slow lumbering beasts

They've built many EMUs for service in North America. The MR95s in Montreal, M7s in New York, the new MultiLevel IIIs for New Jersey....

They also bid on the cars for SEPTA, Denver's RTD, Portland's WES and SMART, but lost out on those contracts.

Dan

 

[cplchanb]

Bombardier recently signed a deal with NJT for Multilevel EMUs (which SEPTA may eventually buy as well). These sets mix powered trailer cars and unpowered cab cars. I suspect that it would be possible to create a similar EMU set based on the Bilevel design. With the FRA standards amended, BBD might also be able to sell Twindexx and Talent type trains in the US, although Transport Canada has yet to follow in the FRA's footsteps (so these trains aren't currently able to operate in Canadian mixed traffic

They need to develop single levels too. Not every system needs a giant bilevel or multilevel, esp in the lesser go lines (Rh, Niagara). Sometimes it's better to run more frequent smaller trains than giant ones that come infrequently

 

[rbt]

They need to develop single levels too. Not every system needs a giant bilevel or multilevel, esp in the lesser go lines (Rh, Niagara). Sometimes it's better to run more frequent smaller trains than giant ones that come infrequently

Is there an operations cost benefit to running single level cars rather than bilevel? Is the weight difference that big because the amount of additional air resistence seems pretty small.

I'd bet the GO bilevels are some of the cheapest commuter cars on the continent to manufacture too simply due to scale.

 

[cplchanb]

Is there an operations cost benefit to running single level cars rather than bilevel? Is the weight difference that big because the amount of additional air resistence seems pretty small.

I'd bet the GO bilevels are some of the cheapest commuter cars on the continent to manufacture too simply due to scale.

I think shoving everyone on 1 large train gives them a false assumption that it can equate to 4 smaller more frequent trains. I sometimes take the RH Go but when I miss a train, I have to either wait almost an hour for the next one or find alternate means.
If they made the trains physically smaller faster and more frequent Im sure I wont be the only one more likely to take transit. I guess this is the difference between NAmerican and other trains overseas. Here we have giant slow infrequent trains while over there they have smaller faster more frequent. Different schools of thought I presume

 

[cplchanb]

They've built many EMUs for service in North America. The MR95s in Montreal, M7s in New York, the new MultiLevel IIIs for New Jersey....

They also bid on the cars for SEPTA, Denver's RTD, Portland's WES and SMART, but lost out on those contracts.

Dan

I guess I should be more specific, do they have something akin to the UPX DMUs? Something that is TC compliant to run on the main lines?
Have they tried to market those to GO instead of continuously churning out BLs?

 

[rbt]

I think shoving everyone on 1 large train gives them a false assumption that it can equate to 4 smaller more frequent trains. I sometimes take the RH Go but when I miss a train, I have to either wait almost an hour for the next one or find alternate means.
If they made the trains physically smaller faster and more frequent Im sure I wont be the only one more likely to take transit. I guess this is the difference between NAmerican and other trains overseas. Here we have giant slow infrequent trains while over there they have smaller faster more frequent. Different schools of thought I presume

My comment was strictly around bilevel cars versus single level cars for similar length trains. You can vary the length of both.

That said, if you want 10 minute frequencies, then just run trains every 10 minutes.

Adjusting train length for mid-day loads has been abandoned by both TTC and GO. The savings were minimal (without a significant investment into automation) and a single mid-day event (often with unpredictable timing like the finish time of a Jays game) was overwhelming capacity provided by short trains.

UPX DMUs aren't very cheap to operate as they are extremely maintenance heavy compared to a standard GO bilevel and 3-car UPX trains still have 2200 HP in them. New GO Locomotives are 2x2700HP engines; disable one engine and you're about the same as a 4-car DMU but still able to haul 6 bilevels. Someone with better knowledge of power curves can chart out actual fuel consumption.

The main benefit to shorter trains is much lower capital investment for stations; you can't get that benefit if a single long train uses the line.

There are few situations where a GO line has a maximum peak load that'll fit into 3-car DMUs every 10 to 15 minutes. Niagara was a good candidate until it was decided for customer convenience to be an extension of Lake Shore.


Automated EMU is a very different situation; but even then Vancouver doesn't vary train length to reduce operating costs (savings are very small), they do it to extend the life of the rolling stock (reduce capital costs).

 

[smallspy]

I guess I should be more specific, do they have something akin to the UPX DMUs? Something that is TC compliant to run on the main lines?

They rejigged their MR95 and M7 design into a DMU, which they offered to LIRR. They were interested, but as it was untendered, they said "no".

Have they tried to market those to GO instead of continuously churning out BLs?

The question that you should be asking is whether GO has asked for anything other than a BiLevel-type of car. The answer up to now has been a resounding no.

I think shoving everyone on 1 large train gives them a false assumption that it can equate to 4 smaller more frequent trains.

To the contrary, from an operational standpoint it makes far, far, far more sense to use one large train rather than 4 smaller trains. Fewer staff, fewer engines to maintain, less impact on track capacity.....

From a ridership standpoint, however - fewer, smaller trains, as you correctly point out, are far superior.

Dan

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Hadn't seen this before, new Tier 4 GO locomotive with the black Metrolinx branding on it at Oakville

 

[M636RF]

After going through some photos I took last week, I noticed that GO 602 (one of the oldest MP40s) now has the same roof-mounted particulate filter that 657-666 were delivered with. Does anyone know if this was just a one off conversion, or is GO planning to retrofit other units?