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Finch West Line 6 LRT

Eglinton as Subway --> BAD

Sheppard to STC--> BAD

Bloor-Danforth to STC -->BAD

DRL--> RELAX, NOT A PRIORITY

**********************

SELRT after Agincourt to the freakin Zoo --> NUMBER 1 PRIORITY

Finch West --> if combined to SELRT --> NUMBER 1 PRIORITY...

??????????????????


Can I run the TTC?
 
Fresh Start said:
Wow, what a joke. Even the TTC readily admits that the maximum peak hourly demand for this corridor is only 2800pphpd, barely the realm for BRT operations yet alone LRT which should only come to play over 5000pphpd.
Click to expand...

The same study method by the TTC readily admits the maximum hourly demand for the Sheppard East LRT corridor is only 3000pphpd.

The same study method by the TTC readily admits the maximum hourly demand for the Eglinton LRT corridor is only 5400pphpd.

Based on your comment that LRT should only come to play over 5000pphpd then you are stating that Sheppard East can only support BRT and Eglinton is right sized with LRT. However if you believe that Sheppard East can support a subway then since Finch West has 93% of the demand of Sheppard East then perhaps subway is warranted on Finch West.
 
EnviroTO said:
If true, I wonder if the study's flaw has also overstated the Sheppard East and Eglinton numbers by 40% and Sheppard East's projection is really 2150 and Eglinton's projection is really 3850.
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Keep in mind that the TTC only studied the route between Morningside to Don Mills...

They neglected **on purpose** to study STC to Don Mills.
The 2001 RTES report stated ridership at 8400 pph...

People need a fast link between STC and Sheppard-Yonge and Downsview...

Of course ridership will be low for Sheppard East...
Is there really somewhere to go past Agincourt beside STC?

*********************


For Eglinton LRT they are playing a dangerous game...
If DRL gets built to Eglinton on both side, Eglinton Crosstown would intercept a very high number of riders normally going to the bloor-Danforth line to go downtown...

No surprise that many on the Metrolinx board would prefer a better technology/better capacity than LRT on Eglinton...
 
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EnviroTO said:
If true, I wonder if the study's flaw has also overstated the Sheppard East and Eglinton numbers by 40% and Sheppard East's projection is really 2150 and Eglinton's projection is really 3850.
Click to expand...

What's true for Finch isn't necessarily true for other routes, particularly when you're just adding and subtracting percentages willy-nilly. Other routes may or may not have subway extensions on the way that will intercept/cannibalize the ridership base, may or may not experience any population/job/retail/student growth, may or may not be able to divert riders from other routes or from cars, may or may not be an improvement over existing bus service, etc., etc.

Very little thought has gone into these projections beyond inflating them to get them within streetcar ROW parameters, and making sure they're not so inflated that they creep into territory requiring more grade-separation - actual rapid transit. Assume vehicle speed of Xkm/hr adds A%, assume population growth Y adds B%, selectively ignore other existing and proposed transit routes, and so on.
 
Well let's see, finch W is about 30K+ a day currently.

What's the % of that is rush hour - for a typical TTC route?

Anyway, 2000 per hour seems reasonable - probably nothing more then that.
Also, there probably won't be much in the way of growth on this route.
 
I think LRT was chosen for this line, because it would improve the rough neighbourhoods that this line passes through. LRTs seem to bring gentrification, to area, whereas the bus is often seen as the poor person's alternative to the car. Even if the demand doesn't warrant...
 
I expect that peak ridership on Finch LRT west of Keele will be much more than 2000 pphpd, or even 2800.

Currently, passenger flow from North Etobicoke is spread between several bus routes, E-W (Finch, Steeles, Albion - Wilson), and N-S (Albion - Royal York, Islington, Kipling, Martin Grove). Each of them takes long time to reach a subway station. But when TYSSE opens, many residents will be within a 10 or 15 min ride on Finch LRT to the Finch North subway station.

So, a fair number of riders will switch to Finch LRT (and to a lesser degree, Steeles West bus) from other bus routes.

Regarding the Keele - Yonge section, note that LRT will form a northern link between the two subway lines. A link not as good as Sheppard West subway, but in the absence of better options, some passengers will use it to get from one subway line to the other.
 
Fresh Start said:
... and long-haul commuters from airport, Woodbridge, Brampton or Malton shouldn't have to endure a longer commute than they reasonably have to (55 mins on the LRT vs. 30 on F.H.C. BRT to Yonge St).
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Commuters from Woodbridge and Brampton should use 407 Transitway to get to Yonge, not F.H.C. BRT. The Transitway will be much faster than F.H.C. BRT ever can be, as the former is much better separated from the residential activities. If those commuters use F.H.C. BRT, it will take them quite a bit more than 30 min to get to Yonge, since first their bus needs to reach that BRT.

Ditto for Malton - it is not next to F.H.C.

Connection from the airport and Mississauga to York U and to Yonge / North York? Yes, F.H.C. BRT might be useful for that purpose. But:

1) It is a different market than Finch West - North Etobicoke.

2) The effect of other network expansions needs to be taken into account. If Eglinton subway materializes, then the commuters might just take two subway rides (transferring at Eglinton / Yonge if heading to North York, or at Eglinton West if heading to York U).
 
Fresh Start said:
long-haul commuters from airport, Woodbridge, Brampton or Malton shouldn't have to endure a longer commute than they reasonably have to (55 mins on the LRT vs. 30 on F.H.C. BRT to Yonge St).
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

Do you realize there is already a GO bus which goes from Bramalea to Yonge Street in 20 minutes??? I don't see how this has to be mutually exclusive to the Finch LRT, which serves an entirely different travel pattern.
 
Rainforest said:
I expect that peak ridership on Finch LRT west of Keele will be much more than 2000 pphpd, or even 2800.

Currently, passenger flow from North Etobicoke is spread between several bus routes, E-W (Finch, Steeles, Albion - Wilson), and N-S (Albion - Royal York, Islington, Kipling, Martin Grove). Each of them takes long time to reach a subway station. But when TYSSE opens, many residents will be within a 10 or 15 min ride on Finch LRT to the Finch North subway station.

So, a fair number of riders will switch to Finch LRT (and to a lesser degree, Steeles West bus) from other bus routes.

Regarding the Keele - Yonge section, note that LRT will form a northern link between the two subway lines. A link not as good as Sheppard West subway, but in the absence of better options, some passengers will use it to get from one subway line to the other.
Click to expand...

No, it can't possibly be over 2800. 1500 would require rather massive ridership growth, including modal growth and shifting from other routes (the area is slated to receive little population growth). Only a small fraction of riders on N/S routes are using these routes north of Finch and then only some of them will switch to Finch...and some will switch to Steeles West buses, since Steeles will also be much closer to the subway once Spadina's extended. And no one, really, from south of Finch will go north and then over when they can go south to Eglinton.

After Spadina's extended and after substantial ridership growth - something like 50%, which is quite a boost - Finch west of Keele will have just about the same peak ridership as Finch west of Yonge does today...projections that have Finch west of Keele roughly tripling in peak crowds are sheer fantasy. A ROW is desirable for other reasons since regular buses are not especially viable in the long term on Finch, but the city should make some effort to aim for realism and honesty, particularly since the cases/rationale for other projects are all built on the same shaky foundations.
 
kettal said:
:rolleyes:

Do you realize there is already a GO bus which goes from Bramalea to Yonge Street in 20 minutes??? I don't see how this has to be mutually exclusive to the Finch LRT, which serves an entirely different travel pattern.
Click to expand...

According to GO schedule, the Bramalea to York Mills bus is scheduled to take 55 minutes (on the express run) or 1 hour on the dixon run. Is there another bus that you are refering to?
 
kettal said:
http://www.gotransit.com/publicroot...ble=32&direction=0&day=1&page=1&New=&station=
Click to expand...

I am still missing something....the shortest bus ride from BCC to Yonge/Sheppard that I see there is 50 minutes? I guess it is shorter (40 minutes) if your target is the Finch GO bus terminal and even shorter (30 minutes) if you are aiming at Yonge and Langstaff.....but, even if traffic does not delay these times, I still can't find that 20 minute bus ride to yonge?

EDIT: forgot to mention that if you flip the page on that link you will see a "frequency" of service which will give you a hint why I might have forgotten about this service anyway.
 
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