Dundas St Rapid Transit (Metrolinx, Mississauga, Halton Region, CoT)

[W. K. Lis]

From Merx:

View attachment 463455

They didn't supply a link. Had to search for it. Here's a link.

Through lanes will be 3.35 metre in width, while curb lanes will be 3.5 metre in width as a minimum. The road will be designed to a design speed of 70 kilometres per hour and a posted speed of 50 to 60 kilometres per hour.​

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The BRT will be located in the median, between each set of general-purpose traffic lanes, and consist of two 3.5 metres dedicated bus lanes (one in each direction), raised median between the bus lanes and general-purpose lanes, 3.6 to 4.2 metre wide by up to 70 metre long far-side platforms at all stops and a 0.3 to 0.5 metre buffer between the platform backwall and adjacent general-purpose lane from Kirwin Avenue to the East.​

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The boulevard space will generally consist of a 2 metre wide sidewalk, a 0.6 metre to 2.0 metre pole/furniture & planting zone and a 2.0 metre protected cycle track. Where constraints exist, the sidewalk and cycle track will be replaced with a multi-use path with a minimum width of 3.0 metre.​

 

[ericmacm]

I’m wondering if they are copying aspects from York Region’s VIVA plans.

Hopefully so.

Median-running BRT should be the standard, and I’m happy to hear that this first segment will be setup like that.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Hopefully so.

Median-running BRT should be the standard, and I’m happy to hear that this first segment will be setup like that.

But will the buses on the right-of-way get priority to move before the single-occupant automobiles at intersections? The streetcars on St. Clair & Spadina don't, which is one reason why they bunch.

 

[just east of the creek]

Hopefully so.

Median-running BRT should be the standard, and I’m happy to hear that this first segment will be setup like that.

I was looking at the NATCO site for clarification on exactly what a Median Running BRT looks like (and apologizes if this is elsewhere). But I am presuming something like the VIVA line up Yonge Street, with physically separated bus lanes and stations contained within the exiting street (for which there is plenty of room on Dundas).

 

[afransen]

I was looking at the NATCO site for clarification on exactly what a Median Running BRT looks like (and apologizes if this is elsewhere). But I am presuming something like the VIVA line up Yonge Street, with physically separated bus lanes and stations contained within the exiting street (for which there is plenty of room on Dundas).

Yup. The distinction is to edge lane BRT, with stations at the sidewalk. The stations are typically on the far side of the intersection, in line with the left turn lanes for regular traffic. The IBC for Dundas calls for median BRT through much of Mississauga, converting to edge lane BRT as it continues into Halton. I believe edge lane BRT is cheaper, with the main downside being impacts to driveways/access?

I doubt we will see overbuilt stations like YRT has done. On balance I'd be okay with that if the trade-off is to actually run frequent service. It's kind of criminal to spend big bucks on a BRT line and not actually operate it at useful headways.

 

[drum118]

Yup. The distinction is to edge lane BRT, with stations at the sidewalk. The stations are typically on the far side of the intersection, in line with the left turn lanes for regular traffic. The IBC for Dundas calls for median BRT through much of Mississauga, converting to edge lane BRT as it continues into Halton. I believe edge lane BRT is cheaper, with the main downside being impacts to driveways/access?

I doubt we will see overbuilt stations like YRT has done. On balance I'd be okay with that if the trade-off is to actually run frequent service. It's kind of criminal to spend big bucks on a BRT line and not actually operate it at useful headways.

Beyond Mavis Rd, there is now nor for the next 20 years or so justification for building a True BRT in the center of the road due to low density and ridership. Halton call for an BRT by 2020 and well be about 2050 before a true BRT can be built due to density and ridership.

All platforms stops will be on the lines of the Crosstown LRT and cheap curbside shelters

 

[just east of the creek]

Beyond Mavis Rd, there is now nor for the next 20 years or so justification for building a True BRT in the center of the road due to low density and ridership. Halton call for an BRT by 2020 and well be about 2050 before a true BRT can be built due to density and ridership.

All platforms stops will be on the lines of the Crosstown LRT and cheap curbside shelters

There is certainly enough traffic now that a BRT would be a transit asset. You could certainly see that a VIVA style build as of Day One might be overdoing it but segregated transit moving much faster then stop and go traffic, would work now. There may be a couple of stretches in Waterdown and Cooksville where full segregation might be more difficult, but all the more reason for the balance.

 

[Sunnyside]

There is certainly enough traffic now that a BRT would be a transit asset. You could certainly see that a VIVA style build as of Day One might be overdoing it but segregated transit moving much faster then stop and go traffic, would work now. There may be a couple of stretches in Waterdown and Cooksville where full segregation might be more difficult, but all the more reason for the balance.

The good news is the Waterdown section doesn’t really demand being segregated as of now anywho, and won’t be for a long time.

I do wonder how this service is going to operate however- will it be local buses per the municipality it runs through? A single service operated as a joint venture between them? Or will it be one Metrolinx-branded service? VIVA didnt have to worry because it’s all one agency. A standardized Metrolinx BRT would be interesting to see.

 

[stanko]

Or will it be one Metrolinx-branded service?

Hopefully GO Transit because Metrolinx already runs bus service through GO?

 

[afransen]

There might be some merit to uploading BRT operation given some jurisdictions criminally underutilized their BRT ROWs.

 

[stanko]

I mean, I just see no other way. It's not "rapid transit" when you have to switch buses at every municipal boundary, and I don't think MiWay or the others would be interested in serving a route going from Kipling subway station to Burlington

EDIT: or maybe the local transit agencies could meet halfway. MiWay could revisit running 1/101 all the way to the bus terminal at Dundas & Trafalgar as it did in (I want to say) 2009-10, maybe then Oakville Transit could take it from there?

 

[Sunnyside]

Hopefully GO Transit because Metrolinx already runs bus service through GO?

I think GO has certain connotations/service expectations from the public as a longer distance service only. Maybe there will be something new, taking inspiration from VIVA and using European buses but branded with Metrolinx grey (blegh). As others said it’s hard to imagine one agency operating the entire BRT unless the Halton agencies (and eventually HSR) is willing to contract it out to MiWay, which seems far fetched.

 

[whydidimakethis]

I think GO has certain connotations/service expectations from the public as a longer distance service only

48km seems pretty long distance to me

 

[Sunnyside]

48km seems pretty long distance to me

I mean stop spacing as well- GO does not operate local service patterns. I don’t see an issue having Metrolinx operate it directly, but GO shouldn’t be the arm to do it. Kindof like how we wouldn’t want “GO” plastered on the crosstown. I think this is all semantics, but a cohesive BRT arm/branding from Metrolinx would help clarify how things will work.

 

[drum118]

There is certainly enough traffic now that a BRT would be a transit asset. You could certainly see that a VIVA style build as of Day One might be overdoing it but segregated transit moving much faster then stop and go traffic, would work now. There may be a couple of stretches in Waterdown and Cooksville where full segregation might be more difficult, but all the more reason for the balance.

If one rides 1/101, they will see there is no need for an centre ROW beyond Mavis as far as I am concerned for the next 20+ years. If one drive Dundas in Halton, you will see development is not there for an ROW as well, including ridership.

Mississauga try running service to Oakville, but it fail badly.

ML has talked about one line from Kipling to Waterdown for years. As who will operated is open to a number of options from GO to a outside contractor or a mixture of one or more transit systems. One option would see Mississauga drivers do a change over in Oakville and Oakville drivers do the rest of the route. Its a long run to the point a driver may do 2 full round trips per shift.

I expect we will see the same colours as the LRV's to say this an ML line since has been ML plan since 2007 as well uniforms. No different than York Region VIVA system setup.