Dundas St Rapid Transit (Metrolinx, Mississauga, Halton Region, CoT)

[just east of the creek]

If one rides 1/101, they will see there is no need for an centre ROW beyond Mavis as far as I am concerned for the next 20+ years. If one drive Dundas in Halton, you will see development is not there for an ROW as well, including ridership.

Mississauga try running service to Oakville, but it fail badly.

ML has talked about one line from Kipling to Waterdown for years. As who will operated is open to a number of options from GO to a outside contractor or a mixture of one or more transit systems. One option would see Mississauga drivers do a change over in Oakville and Oakville drivers do the rest of the route. Its a long run to the point a driver may do 2 full round trips per shift.

I expect we will see the same colours as the LRV's to say this an ML line since has been ML plan since 2007 as well uniforms. No different than York Region VIVA system setup.

Drum. I am not getting on this bus if a) it starts out as HSR in Waterdown, becomes BT for a while, then OT, then Miway, until I can intersect with TTC 45 to get me into the Airport Industrial Area. So your information re ML's thoughts on this are welcomed. I would just assume a GO service. And then b) any service that pokes along at TTC speeds in traffic ALL THE WAY (I was imaging Howard Cosell). If that's the choice, then I may as well sit in an SUV and listen to Vivaldi's' Four Seasons for the next twenty years. But if you are going to give me transit that gets me to my destination faster then I can drive, with less stress, then I'm all in. So why not build it now, even if miles of it are painted separations only (excluding intersections and or stops) and run a service that will attract people from their cars to listen to Vivaldi on their ear buds while they enjoy a seamless transit using one service provider. It makes sense to me.

 

[drum118]

Drum. I am not getting on this bus if a) it starts out as HSR in Waterdown, becomes BT for a while, then OT, then Miway, until I can intersect with TTC 45 to get me into the Airport Industrial Area. So your information re ML's thoughts on this are welcomed. I would just assume a GO service. And then b) any service that pokes along at TTC speeds in traffic ALL THE WAY (I was imaging Howard Cosell). If that's the choice, then I may as well sit in an SUV and listen to Vivaldi's' Four Seasons for the next twenty years. But if you are going to give me transit that gets me to my destination faster then I can drive, with less stress, then I'm all in. So why not build it now, even if miles of it are painted separations only (excluding intersections and or stops) and run a service that will attract people from their cars to listen to Vivaldi on their ear buds while they enjoy a seamless transit using one service provider. It makes sense to me.

As I stated, it will be one bus running end to end, but could be operated by one or more systems. There would be no changing of buses if run by one or more existing transit systems, just divers.

It would be preferable that only one operator would run this line like it happens for an number of systems. It could be GO or X.

Kitchener ION is run by outside company as well VIVA. TTC is operating Line 5 and 6 for ML who owns the line.

End of the day, who would ride this long route end to end in the first place and how many when you have the Lakeshore next to it.??

 

[W. K. Lis]

As I stated, it will be one bus running end to end, but could be operated by one or more systems. There would be no changing of buses if run by one or more existing transit systems, just divers.

It would be preferable that only one operator would run this line like it happens for an number of systems. It could be GO or X.

Kitchener ION is run by outside company as well VIVA. TTC is operating Line 5 and 6 for ML who owns the line.

End of the day, who would ride this long route end to end in the first place and how many when you have the Lakeshore next to it.??

Do the latest transit buses have a fuel gauge? Most transit buses I've seen have no fuel gauge. Transit buses have to be refuelled at the bus garage each night. Sometimes however, the buses do run out of fuel, requiring either a toll or an emergency refill to get to the garage.

Subway trains, light rail vehicles, streetcars, and trolley buses don't have that problem. Only coming in for cleaning and maintenance.

So who pays for the bus fuel?

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Do the latest transit buses have a fuel gauge? Most transit buses I've seen have no fuel gauge. Transit buses have to be refuelled at the bus garage each night. Sometimes however, the buses do run out of fuel, requiring either a toll or an emergency refill to get to the garage.

Subway trains, light rail vehicles, streetcars, and trolley buses don't have that problem. Only coming in for cleaning and maintenance.

So who pays for the bus fuel?

The TTC buys fuel in bulk just like any other transit agency. They have large tanks at all of the garages. Metrolinks does that same with go buses, and go trains for the most part sometime though go trains end up being further away from a depot and they will bring a fuel truck to refit it at whatever location it's at.

 

[drum118]

The TTC buys fuel in bulk just like any other transit agency. They have large tanks at all of the garages. Metrolinks does that same with go buses, and go trains for the most part sometime though go trains end up being further away from a depot and they will bring a fuel truck to refit it at whatever location it's at.

Most/all transit systems have fuel tanks somewhere in their systems to fuel their fleet and buy in bulk. Most are underground from what I have seen so far

Transit systems have an idea when buses should be pull from service to be refilled before going back out and why you see a bus replacing a bus at terminals or end of a route. You will see a bus that has arrived at a terminal and depart empty after dropping riders off as the replacement bus is already sitting at the layover bay or at the platform for the route it will be operating on.

It is common to see 1 fuel truck at Aldershot to fuel up the locomotive whiles waiting to eastbound again. I have seen 2 trucks a few times in the past, but no idea these days if that still happen, since I am rarely out there in the first place. There was a plan from day one to have a fuel tank on site and fuel the locomotives like they do at Willowbrook, but looks like that plan has die.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

List of bids that were submitted for the first phase of the Dundas BRT East through Mississauga. Shortlist should be out soon I think. From here.

 

[drum118]

Nov 07
RFP to be issue in 2024 with construction starting 2026 From Etobicoke Creek to Confederation Dr.

 

[MiExpress]

Mississauga staff have drafted a report recommending endorsement of the interim design of the Dundas BRT in Cooksville, which is the segment between Camilla Road and Confederation Parkway.

Due to the challenges around property acquisition, the preferred alignment in this segment opts against acquiring property to maintain the existing two lanes of traffic in each direction; instead traffic will be one lane in each direction with centre BRT lanes and enhanced boulevard with widened sidewalks and cycle tracks. East/west traffic along Dundas will not be permitted to turn at Hurontario with only straight through traffic allowed.

The segments of Dundas outside this area will still be able to maintain two lanes of traffic in each direction due to wider existing right of way and less challenges with property acquisition.

Key paragraphs from the report:

"The team recognizes that it does not provide the design proposed in the TPAP, but this option will prioritize moving people into and through Downtown Cooksville, connect the City's two major,rapid transit lines (the Hazel McCallion Line and the Dundas BRT) and enhance the publicrealm of this historic community. The traditional road widening approach is not only cost prohibitive but also competes with the principles of Vision Cooksville, which promotes a,walkable community""

"The interim design will have impacts on vehicular traffic in the area with the change to a single general purpose lane in both directions along with turning restrictions. This section of Dundas Street already experiences congestion on a regular basis.The interim design does not eliminate driving access in the Cooksville area; instead, it aims to modify the roadway and prioritize alternative transportation. The expectation is that people will be more inclined to use public transit due to the efficient services offered by the dedicated BRT lane and the adjacent LRT line. By prioritizing transit and enhancing active transportation and the public realm, a behavioral shift is anticipated, which ultimately improves connectivity and level of service.To alleviate potential congestion, the interim design implements turn restrictions to smooth the flow of through traffic in Cooksville. Specifically, at the intersection of Hurontario Street and Dundas Street, vehicular traffic will only be permitted to continue straight along Dundas Street.Neither left nor right turns will be allowed in either the east or west direction. Vehicles canexecute turning movements using a "ring-road system" around the intersections of Hillcrest Avenue, Kirwin Avenue, Camilla Road, King Street West & East, and Confederation Parkway."

Concept images from the report:

 

[drum118]

Mississauga staff have drafted a report recommending endorsement of the interim design of the Dundas BRT in Cooksville, which is the segment between Camilla Road and Confederation Parkway.

Due to the challenges around property acquisition, the preferred alignment in this segment opts against acquiring property to maintain the existing two lanes of traffic in each direction; instead traffic will be one lane in each direction with centre BRT lanes and enhanced boulevard with widened sidewalks and cycle tracks. East/west traffic along Dundas will not be permitted to turn at Hurontario with only straight through traffic allowed.

The segments of Dundas outside this area will still be able to maintain two lanes of traffic in each direction due to wider existing right of way and less challenges with property acquisition.

Key paragraphs from the report:

"The team recognizes that it does not provide the design proposed in the TPAP, but this option will prioritize moving people into and through Downtown Cooksville, connect the City's two major,rapid transit lines (the Hazel McCallion Line and the Dundas BRT) and enhance the publicrealm of this historic community. The traditional road widening approach is not only cost prohibitive but also competes with the principles of Vision Cooksville, which promotes a,walkable community""

"The interim design will have impacts on vehicular traffic in the area with the change to a single general purpose lane in both directions along with turning restrictions. This section of Dundas Street already experiences congestion on a regular basis.The interim design does not eliminate driving access in the Cooksville area; instead, it aims to modify the roadway and prioritize alternative transportation. The expectation is that people will be more inclined to use public transit due to the efficient services offered by the dedicated BRT lane and the adjacent LRT line. By prioritizing transit and enhancing active transportation and the public realm, a behavioral shift is anticipated, which ultimately improves connectivity and level of service.To alleviate potential congestion, the interim design implements turn restrictions to smooth the flow of through traffic in Cooksville. Specifically, at the intersection of Hurontario Street and Dundas Street, vehicular traffic will only be permitted to continue straight along Dundas Street.Neither left nor right turns will be allowed in either the east or west direction. Vehicles canexecute turning movements using a "ring-road system" around the intersections of Hillcrest Avenue, Kirwin Avenue, Camilla Road, King Street West & East, and Confederation Parkway."

Concept images from the report:

View attachment 519069

That will be a nightmare for traffic, especially at peak time. It will mean no left turns allow and you better make it "NO TURNS PERIOD". Making a right turn will be hamper by pedestrian crossing the street like it happens today with a turning lane that can get backup.

Both banks are on borrow time as both sites are due to be redevelop over the next 10 years.

When you get down to it, there is nothing left of the old Cooksville heritage buildings east of Confederation to allow for 2 lanes of traffic both direction other than money to buy the properties and then redevelop them later with a better return on the investment.

 

[sixrings]

That will be a nightmare for traffic, especially at peak time. It will mean no left turns allow and you better make it "NO TURNS PERIOD". Making a right turn will be hamper by pedestrian crossing the street like it happens today with a turning lane that can get backup.

Both banks are on borrow time as both sites are due to be redevelop over the next 10 years.

When you get down to it, there is nothing left of the old Cooksville heritage buildings east of Confederation to allow for 2 lanes of traffic both direction other than money to buy the properties and then redevelop them later with a better return on the investment.

Yes this is a disaster the same way the lane reduction between old Weston road and keele road is on st clair with the streetcar.

Also agree that these buildings are all on borrowed time. Surely they could either acquire the land or make it so all development left room in front of an extra lane.

 

[drum118]

Yes this is a disaster the same way the lane reduction between old Weston road and keele road is on st clair with the streetcar.

Also agree that these buildings are all on borrowed time. Surely they could either acquire the land or make it so all development left room in front of an extra lane.

The 2 projects being built on Dundas are being built behind the yellow line to allow road widening. You have enough room to shift the road to the south between Confederation and Hurontario with the lost of a few stores.

St Clair is a disaster at Weston Rd/Keele because of the Stock Yard as that is the only area where single lanes doesn't work as well the only way to get south on Keele since the Old Weston Road Overpass was removed. You put a new overpass in, traffic will be a lot less.

This mess on Dundas is another short sight like they did for the bus terminal and a number of other things.

 

[Towered]

Nov 07
RFP to be issue in 2024 with construction starting 2026 From Etobicoke Creek to Confederation Dr.

So no initial connection to the subway at Kipling??

 

[drum118]

So no initial connection to the subway at Kipling??

The Mississauga is in talks with Toronto to have the ROW to go to Kipling. You know TTC and Toronto have a funding issue at this time and to some future date that it will be sometime before that happens.

 

[Wm Perkins Bull]

Mississauga staff have drafted a report recommending endorsement of the interim design of the Dundas BRT in Cooksville, which is the segment between Camilla Road and Confederation Parkway.

Due to the challenges around property acquisition, the preferred alignment in this segment opts against acquiring property to maintain the existing two lanes of traffic in each direction; instead traffic will be one lane in each direction with centre BRT lanes and enhanced boulevard with widened sidewalks and cycle tracks. East/west traffic along Dundas will not be permitted to turn at Hurontario with only straight through traffic allowed.

The segments of Dundas outside this area will still be able to maintain two lanes of traffic in each direction due to wider existing right of way and less challenges with property acquisition.

Key paragraphs from the report:

"The team recognizes that it does not provide the design proposed in the TPAP, but this option will prioritize moving people into and through Downtown Cooksville, connect the City's two major,rapid transit lines (the Hazel McCallion Line and the Dundas BRT) and enhance the publicrealm of this historic community. The traditional road widening approach is not only cost prohibitive but also competes with the principles of Vision Cooksville, which promotes a,walkable community""

"The interim design will have impacts on vehicular traffic in the area with the change to a single general purpose lane in both directions along with turning restrictions. This section of Dundas Street already experiences congestion on a regular basis.The interim design does not eliminate driving access in the Cooksville area; instead, it aims to modify the roadway and prioritize alternative transportation. The expectation is that people will be more inclined to use public transit due to the efficient services offered by the dedicated BRT lane and the adjacent LRT line. By prioritizing transit and enhancing active transportation and the public realm, a behavioral shift is anticipated, which ultimately improves connectivity and level of service.To alleviate potential congestion, the interim design implements turn restrictions to smooth the flow of through traffic in Cooksville. Specifically, at the intersection of Hurontario Street and Dundas Street, vehicular traffic will only be permitted to continue straight along Dundas Street.Neither left nor right turns will be allowed in either the east or west direction. Vehicles canexecute turning movements using a "ring-road system" around the intersections of Hillcrest Avenue, Kirwin Avenue, Camilla Road, King Street West & East, and Confederation Parkway."

Concept images from the report:

View attachment 519069

Another shortsighted act, that reeks of cowardice by the City of Mississauga. If they simply bit the bullet and expropriated the complete properties, they could later rezone the land and make a small fortune off of it.

So no initial connection to the subway at Kipling??

There are already HOV lanes from the Etobicoke Creek to Aukland Road along Dundas, with Aukland being where the buses turn into the TTC Kipling bus terminal. This means if Toronto put down some red paint, made it bus only, and made the hours 24/7, they could add some bus lanes quite cheaply.

 

[rbt]

Another shortsighted act, that reeks of cowardice by the City of Mississauga. If they simply bit the bullet and expropriated the complete properties, they could later rezone the land and make a small fortune off of it.

If they can rezone surplus and sell at a profit then there is a strong argument the original owner was not made whole for the value of their land during the expropriation process.

I'm not aware of a lawsuit after the fact as expropriated land is typically minimized, but there are certainly some pre-expropriation rezoning applications to ensure maximum value is considered (see Toronto's railway park).

Anyway, at most you can do this once. Every aggressive expropriation proposal after that a lawyer will draft a collective land-assembly agreement and toss in a basic rezoning application for every single expropriation in exchange for a %age of the increased value.