afransen
Senior Member
Sounds like $40B in transit spending. Governments can buy a lot of votes with that kind of commitment in other areas.
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Dundas St Rapid Transit (Metrolinx, Mississauga, Halton Region, CoT)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
allengeorge
Senior Member
I’m truly surprised at this level of cost-cutting. Prevent future upgrades because of $7M? It’s understand if this were mid-to-high double digit millions, but this seems like a case of penny-wise, pound-foolish.
Very interesting. I guess that makes sense? Outside of an LRT, BRT, and potential Milton line upgrades, is Mississauga in desperate need of capital improvements? It’s really down to service increases, right,
drum118
Superstar
MTO has stated that no transitway will be built on the 427 unless there is a buses every 3 seconds using it. The land is more value to traffic than transit
You need to build the missing section starting east of Hurontario to Erin Mills with the eastern section underground to get to the north side of the 403 as well servicing a new transit terminal.
Why stop the OL at Renforth went it should go to the airport?
afransen
Senior Member
A bus every 3 seconds is a bit nonsensical. A bus every 60 seconds would have higher throughput than a general purpose lane.
MTO isn't a fiefdom, they answer to politicians.
drum118
Superstar
With Ford in office, good luck getting a transitway on a highway, especially 427. Land is set a side for the 407 BRT and nothing built today for it after how many decades??
Regardless who is in power, MTO calls the shots for highways. They have from time to time change construction timeline and layout to meet politicians requests, but not to meet transit needs.
MTO has set a standard for lanes and like it or not, the 3 second rule is the standard as well no transit lanes only. Having a transit bus every 60 seconds cannot be met and it it does, it is a rare time for the day. The best you may see is every 5-10 minutes with TTC at every 10 minutes, miWay every 15-25 minutes for 4 routes that will be less at times and GO every 15 minutes.
Bureaucromancer
Active Member
As far as Renforth vs Pearson for the OL, my thinking is that Pearson is better served by the 407 corridor given that this isn’t meant to be a primary downtown / airport connector.
nfitz
Superstar
Off-topic here - but I'd think the alignment for the Ontario Line would best be Person -> Renforth -> Kipling. Line 5 is great, but need to get to Kipling from Pearson.
And then it can intercept the Dundas B/L RT somewhere west of Kipling as well.
Now that would be a useful corridor! Alternatively routing it through Square One maybe.
drum118
Superstar
Presentation going to General Committee on Nov 6 for various RT projects with the BRT part of it. Timeline for construction to start in 2028 and completed in 2031 for 7km from Etobicoke Creek to Confederation
The presentation for the BRT starts on page 14
The presentation for the BRT starts on page 14
afransen
Senior Member
Talking about reducing Dundas to one general purpose lane per direction (and no turn lanes) at Hurontario? Bold proposal. I wonder how well that squares with Doug Ford ripping out bike lanes.
Do they propose to ban turns at the intersection?
drum118
Superstar
I expect so for turning.
The city is not willing to buy the property for the 4 corners to meet the 45m street width and levering it to developers.to provide the extra width. The 2 condos being built at this time are set back to meet the new 45m width. At the current rate for redevelopment, it maybe 2040-50 before it happens for Dundas.
The pinch point at this time is from Cawthra to Mavis. There is another pinch point on either side of Mississauga, but way down the road if a true BRT is to be built.
The city is calling for King St and Hillcrest/Kirwin to act as bypass and turning lanes in place of Dundas at this time.
sixrings
Senior Member
Hard for the city to comprehend that post lrt/brt that the land there will be worth considerably more?
drum118
Superstar
The city will be buy land for this section, but where is unknown at this time. There are sites east of Hurontario where strip of land could be had to widen the street. All the buildings between Confederation and Sheppard need to be torn down to get the needed width, but what does the city do with those empty lots one the road is rebuilt if they bought then??? They will be no lost for them in the end for the area as they are only 1-2 story building and no heritage for them.
There been so many projects plan for this area over the decades and they have never got of the grown with land being flip. There was a plan for the south-east conner and the city shot it down as a tower to what is there. Same for Confederation corner that saw a number proposals to the point the The Conservatory Group bought the land that was to have an 18 story rental building on Dundas and 250 townhouse for the rest site. The tower disappear from the plan and the number of townhouses increased for the site. After construction for the site, a legal battle between the brothers took place to the point the court said the legal issues could be resolved is to split the company up and most sites stop work on them except for a few to the point, no one knows what will happen to these sites. Those townhouse are a mistake for the area that will see both BRT and LRT and should be 10-25 story towers with some green spaces.
As it stands, that whole block is to be redevelop with some streets in it. Same is plan for the north-east corner as well north Hurontario and east on Dundas. 3 sites on Hurontario has submitted plans for them.
Bojaxs
Active Member
It's a mistake to not to widen this stretch of Dundas to allow for dedicated bus lanes. With all the residential construction planned for this busy intersection. Plus the increase in bus activity once the BRT is up and running, it'll become a congestion nightmare. Buses will be held up by drivers wanting to make a left turn. The entire Dundas BRT will be hamstrung by this intersection if it's not widened.
Something else to note. Burlington is in the midst of widening Dundas st. to 6 lanes from 4. Including constructing 6 lanes bridges going over Bronte creek and the CN tracks near the Appleby & Dundas intersection. You can see the construction on Google maps. I was reading some info on this project and there's no mention of "future proofing" for a BRT along this stretch of Dundas. I guess the plan is to reduce Dundas St. back down to 4 lanes for cars and replace 2 car lanes with bus lanes. Not sure this will be popular with drivers and Doug Ford's government.
drum118
Superstar
Have you look at this section to understand as what the big issue is to do what yo see needed to be done in person???It's a mistake to not to widen this stretch of Dundas to allow for dedicated bus lanes. With all the residential construction planned for this busy intersection. Plus the increase in bus activity once the BRT is up and running, it'll become a congestion nightmare. Buses will be held up by drivers wanting to make a left turn. The entire Dundas BRT will be hamstrung by this intersection if it's not widened.
Something else to note. Burlington is in the midst of widening Dundas st. to 6 lanes from 4. Including constructing 6 lanes bridges going over Bronte creek and the CN tracks near the Appleby & Dundas intersection. You can see the construction on Google maps. I was reading some info on this project and there's no mention of "future proofing" for a BRT along this stretch of Dundas. I guess the plan is to reduce Dundas St. back down to 4 lanes for cars and replace 2 car lanes with bus lanes. Not sure this will be popular with drivers and Doug Ford's government.
The plan is to widen that section on the developer dime, not the city nickel which may take 20 or more years to do.
drum118
Superstar
Nov 6
Took in the presentation at council today and it was the main topic of all the RT plans being present to council. The main concern was what was happening to the Toronto section and was told ML has put it on the back burner. The other issue was the current construction on Dundas and council was told an number of things have been found that have to be dealt with first before things can get back on track. The plan is now to relocate hydro infrastructure that is causing some of the delay and will happen in the future to take some vantage to do so which open the door to talk about the LRT again. The LRT went no way as there was a push to not delay the process that will be needed to look at LRT and get on building the BRT.
I question staff after their presentation about the Hurontario area and was told what I have stated in the past. There will be only a single in each direction on Dundas with no left turns. Those left turns will take place at King and Hillcrest intersection. When those blocks on both side of Hurontario get redeveloped, then the other lanes will be added to meet the 45m street edge new standards. As I stated before, the city not prepared to buy those properties so the existing buildings can be torn down to widen the road to only sit empty for the next 20 or so years and fully agree on it.
Since the money is in place at all levels, only the 7km true ROW will be built by 203, with the rest being push way down the road since ML has kick it there due to cost as well lack of ridership.
Took in the presentation at council today and it was the main topic of all the RT plans being present to council. The main concern was what was happening to the Toronto section and was told ML has put it on the back burner. The other issue was the current construction on Dundas and council was told an number of things have been found that have to be dealt with first before things can get back on track. The plan is now to relocate hydro infrastructure that is causing some of the delay and will happen in the future to take some vantage to do so which open the door to talk about the LRT again. The LRT went no way as there was a push to not delay the process that will be needed to look at LRT and get on building the BRT.
I question staff after their presentation about the Hurontario area and was told what I have stated in the past. There will be only a single in each direction on Dundas with no left turns. Those left turns will take place at King and Hillcrest intersection. When those blocks on both side of Hurontario get redeveloped, then the other lanes will be added to meet the 45m street edge new standards. As I stated before, the city not prepared to buy those properties so the existing buildings can be torn down to widen the road to only sit empty for the next 20 or so years and fully agree on it.
Since the money is in place at all levels, only the 7km true ROW will be built by 203, with the rest being push way down the road since ML has kick it there due to cost as well lack of ridership.