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Dundas St Rapid Transit (Metrolinx, Mississauga, Halton Region, CoT)

drum118

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I don't see this line getting off the ground until the 20's at this time.

Metrolinx wants this to be a BRT 100% regardless what Mississauga wants east of Hurontario.

Because of all the issues with Hydro One at Kipling, an LRT station can't be located where it was proposed to go. The only place it can go will be either underground or a stop on Dundas St.

The current ridership only support an BRT to Hurontario and mix traffic to Burlington.

Oakville has had an BRT on Dundas in their master plan for over a couple of decade to the point they are now doing a Master Land Use Study of the corridor to make sure there is density to support it. If one looks at that corridor today, they will see no need for a BRT.

Anything west of Hurontario in Mississauga can't support a BRT due to strip malls and low density. There is nothing stopping building a BRT ROW there even with this low density. If an LRT was to go west of Hurontario, it will have to be elevated over Mississauga Rd due to the steep incline there.

You could put in an LRT east of Hurontario from Day one as ridership is increasing and the corridor is prime for redevelopment that could out preform Hurontario.

The Mississauga is planing a Transit Terminal at Hurontario and Dundas. There is also a study underway for a Master Plan of Redevelopment of 2-3 blocks around the old 5/10 intersection. Next meeting is on Jan 28, 2016.

The issue for a BRT/LRT Dundas line at Hurontario is where do you have a terminal to change from/to BRT to/from LRT.

This BRT ROW will be require in Toronto and it will benefit TTC from Day One.

Its my understanding a Master Land Use Study of Dundas and Transportation Planning is to get underway in 2016 with an EA around 2018/19. This is subject to changes.

MiWay currently runs extra buses only between Mavis Rd and Dixie Rd since this section carries more riders at this time than either end at various times.
 

DKsan

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Here's the EA page for Dundas between Bronte Road and Proudfoot Trail. That part is currently under construction, though it's unclear as to whether they're adding the BRT/HOV lanes.

Three separate EA studies for Dundas in Halton:
Screen shot 2015-12-03 at 3.40.16 PM.png


Dundas at Third Line near proposed Oakville hospital
Screen shot 2015-12-03 at 3.50.32 PM.png

Cross section:
Screen shot 2015-12-03 at 3.52.55 PM.png
 

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gweed123

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Because of all the issues with Hydro One at Kipling, an LRT station can't be located where it was proposed to go. The only place it can go will be either underground or a stop on Dundas St.
Sounds to me like this only increases the rationale behind building a 1 stop subway extension to Honeydale in order to build an integrated multimodal terminal.
 

CDL.TO

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Perhaps a good first step (and sign of commitment), Oakville and/or Burlington should start running a Dundas St bus from Mississauga to Hwy 407? (Or, even better, partner with Hamilton and take it in to Waterdown.)

This is a priority "Next Wave" rapid transit corridor where there isn't even a half-hourly local bus today. Every single other priority project has local AND limited-stop services (most of which are frequent, too) operating on their associated corridors TODAY.
 

innsertnamehere

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^ the reason this is a next wave corridor is because of the Oakville North development that is currently underway. Dundas today is most farms to the north of it, which will be changing soon as the subdivisions and condos slowly go in. 15 years from now this will be a much busier route, it will see extremely rapid growth.
 

CDL.TO

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Should it be a priority corridor if it's dependent on future development, when all the other corridors have demand today?

There is some development today on the north side, but even if there wasn't the south side of the street is still completely built out. If development being half done (one side of the street) can't support a half-hourly local bus, can we really expect a doubling of development to support a frequent rapid transit line?
 

Raul

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As much as I would like to see an extension to honey dale mall, I don't think that's happening, at least not in this lifetime,
 

Raul

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Ridership beyond Mississauga is questionable at the current levels. BRT ROW should be built to HWY403. Even though low ridership after Mavis, it allows for future growth and maybe one day LRT when ridership is there. It would be nice to have a good link to UTM. May drive more ridership long term.
 

ShonTron

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Perhaps a good first step (and sign of commitment), Oakville and/or Burlingotn should start running a Dundas St bus from Mississauga to Hwy 407? (Or, even better, partner with Hamilton and take it in to Waterdown.)

This is a priority "Next Wave" rapid transit corridor where there isn't even a half-hourly local bus today. Every single other priority project has local AND limited-stop services (most of which are frequent, too) operating on their associated corridors TODAY.
Co-operation between Oakville and Burlington Transit seems to be far less than between Brampton and Mississauga Transit. Oakville Transit doesn't even enter Burlington's boundaries anymore; only Burlington Transit routes 81/83 enters Oakville, and that's only just across Burloak Drive. Sure, Bronte Provincial Park separates the two, but there's no excuse anymore that there's no bus service across Dundas Street between the two municipalities, especially as the new Oakville Hospital is up there.

A 15-30 minute bus service, running 7 days a week, between Waterdown and either South Common Mall or UTM, should be required before any BRT or even BRT-lite service comes to Dundas Street west of Winston Churchill.

Dundas Street should be to Halton Region that Bovaird Drive is to Brampton. Bovaird has pretty frequent bus service these days during daylight hours thanks to the local 5 bus and the 505 Zum; service operates at worst, every 30 minutes until 1AM.

It's time for Halton Region Transit.
 

drum118

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Co-operation between Oakville and Burlington Transit seems to be far less than between Brampton and Mississauga Transit. Oakville Transit doesn't even enter Burlington's boundaries anymore; only Burlington Transit routes 81/83 enters Oakville, and that's only just across Burloak Drive. Sure, Bronte Provincial Park separates the two, but there's no excuse anymore that there's no bus service across Dundas Street between the two municipalities, especially as the new Oakville Hospital is up there.

A 15-30 minute bus service, running 7 days a week, between Waterdown and either South Common Mall or UTM, should be required before any BRT or even BRT-lite service comes to Dundas Street west of Winston Churchill.

Dundas Street should be to Halton Region that Bovaird Drive is to Brampton. Bovaird has pretty frequent bus service these days during daylight hours thanks to the local 5 bus and the 505 Zum; service operates at worst, every 30 minutes until 1AM.

It's time for Halton Region Transit.
Before you get BRT-lite, service should be 15 minutes 7 days a week.

Just like Peel, Halton not willing to look at a Halton System in place of the current 3. Only one Halton system willing to be part of an Halton system that I know of. Where is Georgetown in all of this??

As I stated to council the last 2 weeks, trunk lines needs to be 10-15 minute max, 7 days a week if you want people to use transit as well change the model split. Some will have less than 10 minutes. Need some 7/24 service on them as well.
 

gweed123

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As much as I would like to see an extension to honey dale mall, I don't think that's happening, at least not in this lifetime,
Why not? It would be a relatively short extension, most of which would be on the surface parallel to the CP rail corridor. It would have near-direct access to the 427 (Mississauga Transitway) and to Dundas St (Dundas BRT). You can also build a new GO station there, which would integrate all of those services into one conveniently laid out location.

As for the Dundas BRT in Halton, I agree that the corridor is definitely lacking bus service right now. It's much easier to make the case for BRT when the existing service on the corridor is frequent and crowded, and thus needs a boost.

As for Halton Region Transit, I agree that would be a good idea. However, I'd prefer (not that it will happen anytime soon) that Metrolinx simply absorb both Burlington and Oakville transit. They would be good test cases for a municipal to provincial upload, so that there would be fewer kinks when a larger service is uploaded (ex: the TTC).
 

doady

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Route 101 used to go to Oakville Uptown, but ridership wasn't there so MT cancelled it.

I think if Peel and Halton were one region, we'd have Halton-Peel Region Transit by now. Peel and Halton are both too small by themselves. They are not true regions like York and Durham. Halton Region Transit would not be regional transit; still lower population combined than Mississauga! For actual regional transit, make Halton and Peel one region first. Caledon can be moved to Dufferin.

As for Metrolinx's push for 100% BRT, the idea of Dundas East in Mississauga having the same transit service as Dundas in Halton is laughable. Dundas West fits with Dundas in Halton, and BRT and can serve UTM better. But east of Hurontario should be LRT or subway. Very high ridership and very high development potential east of Hurontario. Dundas East is as busy as Hurontario. One site doesn't fit all.

Plus you can't have an on-street bus route operating from Burlington to Etobicoke. Even with BRT measures, that's just ridiculous. 2 hour long bus route? Yeah right...
 

drum118

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The next round for the land use and transit on this corridor got underway today.

Metrolinx stated they have made no decision what will operate on Dundas after I made the statement that they only see BRT from Kipling to Burlington. Doing a BRT west of Hurontario is decades off, let alone having one in Halton.

Getting an LRT east of Hurontario will not happen first, since the max peak point at this time is only 1,100 an hour at peak time.

This time around, graph was used to show what the min-max numbers are for each type of options. Buses up to 2,500, BRT up to 12,000, LRT up to 24,000, subway starting at 11,000 and up to 40,000. Based on current model by 2040, BRT and LRT fill the bill and not even close to subway needs.

I disagree with projected numbers for residential and employment by 2040, with the number being added for the whole route will be just for the Dixie area.

There will be workshops at the following meeting as well what height buildings should be for the various areas along Dundas. Some of the meetings are on the same night as the Hurontario LRT meetings.

There will be some design plans on display with bike lanes on Dundas. Max ROW for the corridor is 35 m.

  • Date: Tuesday October 18, 2016
  • Who: City of Mississauga
  • What: Dundas Connects Public Meeting
  • Where: Mississauga Civic Centre, 300 City Centre Drive, Mississauga, ON
  • When: 11:00 a.m to 2:00 pm
  • Notes:
  • Website: Dundas Connects (EA)
  • Date: Tuesday October 24, 2016
  • Who: City of Mississauga
  • What: Dundas Connects Public Meeting
  • Where: St. Peter's Erindale Anglican Church, 3041 Mississauga Road, Mississauga, ON
  • When: 6:00 p.m to 9:00 pm
  • Notes:
  • Website: Dundas Connects (EA)
  • Date: Wednesday October 25, 2016
  • Who: City of Mississauga
  • What: Dundas Connects Public Meeting
  • Where: TL Kennedy Secondary School, 3100 Hurontario Street, Mississauga, ON
  • When: 6:00 p.m to 9:00 pm
  • Notes:
  • Website: Dundas Connects (EA)
  • Date: Thursday October 26, 2016
  • Who: City of Mississauga
  • What: Dundas Connects Public Meeting
  • Where: St. John's Dixie Anglican Church, 719 Dundas Street East, Mississauga, ON
  • When: 6:00 p.m to 9:00 pm
  • Notes:
  • Website: Dundas Connects (EA)
 

drum118

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Subway Subway, Monorail Monorail, faster faster transit service than cars was the call at last night meeting by a small crowd. Really surprised by the low turn out considering Monday night saw 3 times more.

Build the subway regardless of the cost of doing it even though it would mean less stops has the comment by one person.

Build stops for the LRT ROW like TTC does was another call.

Based on what I have heard, the study is supporting what I have said for some time that a true BRT west of Hurontario is not needed for at least 2-3 decades at this time.

Can live with an BRT ROW east of Hurontario at this time until Toronto decides if it going to extend the subway to Cloverdale. Unless all parties can come to agreement including Toronto, building an ROW in Toronto for LRT is going to be an issue. If you build the ROW right, you can run both buses and LRT on it.

When trying to design a street for 35m, sidewalks end up being the looser. This is where the city needs to work with "ALL" landowners to allow for sidewalk on their property that will include space for patio or what every.

Hight of building will be an issues, but the crowd seem to be in agreement of mid rise with taller buildings around the major hubs and the 7 main location for development.

Based on my talks with some developers to date, the extra 13,000 residents and 3,500 new jobs by 2041 will be met long before then.

As for ridership being removed from GO, its an yes and no answers. There has been a false methodology for decades that all riders want to go downtown, but are force to do this as it there is a lack of service or no service as well too long to get them where they really want to go in the first place.
 

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