Debate on the merits of the Scarborough Subway Extension

[Rainforest]

I would assume if Finch West Etobicoke residents were like Scarborough Centre residents, then they would not want the Finch West LRT, and instead would want a Sheppard Subway Extension from Sheppard-Yonge to Sheppard West to Finch West to Humber College.

TTC had that kind of extension on its books at one point. The Sheppard subway was supposed to swing up to the Finch hydro corridor and continue west. Don't know if it was to reach Humber College, or follow the hydro corridor that turns south-west after crossing Hwy 400, towards Pearson.

That said, there doesn't seem to be much support for the subway in that corridor. Finch LRT may be slower than a subway could be, but the total travel time will be good with LRT because the western border of the city isn't that far from the Finch West subway station.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

That said, there doesn't seem to be much support for the subway in that corridor. Finch LRT may be slower than a subway could be, but the total travel time will be good with LRT because the western border of the city isn't that far from the Finch West subway station.

Finch West is 14 km from the edge of the city.

 

[Rainforest]

Finch West is 14 km from the edge of the city.

11 km to the Humber College terminus, should be about 12 or 13 km to where Finch Ave crosses the city boundary (just east of Hwy 427).

The point is, LRT is reasonably fast for that distance. Should reach Humber terminus in 26 min if it runs at 25 kph on average.

 

[OneCity]

So if Scarborough gets a 1 stop extension, will there be a 1 stop extension west to Honeydale (Cloverdale) Mall or 427.

It'll be a few decades but It will be driven by a bigger extension for a future Mississauga City Centre. https://www.insauga.com/its-time-to-build-a-subway-to-square-one. Part of Toronto council can bully Scarborough but they have zero power to stunt growth in the 905. I would certainly expect some noise at this time from the usual players, but since they cant cancel this line on their own we wont see the games or the cannibalization to one stop when it goes ahead.

Sauga will have it all with a very well laid out LRT, BRT, Highway network, Airport and then subway connection. Very detailed planning which accounts for all types of commuters. This extension was just a question of when once Vaughan was connected

 

[syn]

Location wasn't the reason. Poor urban planning was.

Good location, poor execution/no viable vision

Good location for an auto oriented suburb trying to build a 'city centre' that was never designed to be pedestrian friendly nor transit friendly.

As for the comments that downplay the transit issues on Finch...it seems our Scarborough Extension supporters never leave Scarborough. As someone who travels around the city using transit, Scarborough transit is a dream compared to what people have to put up with at Finch Station. That's why all the complaints about having to make a transfer, the RT being old and noisy, etc. are so completely absurd to most others. All of that would be a dramatic upgrade in quite a few other areas of the city, including Finch.

Now that same ignorant entitlement suggests that it makes sense to either waste billions on 6km one stop extension, or that they should've blew all the available transit funding to put the Eglinton LRT underground.

Sad and unfortunate.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

Good location for an auto oriented suburb trying to build a 'city centre' that was never designed to be pedestrian friendly nor transit friendly.

As for the comments that downplay the transit issues on Finch...it seems our Scarborough Extension supporters never leave Scarborough. As someone who travels around the city using transit, Scarborough transit is a dream compared to what people have to put up with at Finch Station. That's why all the complaints about having to make a transfer, the RT being old and noisy, etc. are so completely absurd to most others. All of that would be a dramatic upgrade in quite a few other areas of the city, including Finch.

Now that same ignorant entitlement suggests that it makes sense to either waste billions on 6km one stop extension, or that they should've blew all the available transit funding to put the Eglinton LRT underground.

Sad and unfortunate.

Another ignorant comment coming from either side of the fence. This thread is pure comedy

 

[Rainforest]

Now that same ignorant entitlement suggests that it makes sense to either waste billions on 6km one stop extension, or that they should've blew all the available transit funding to put the Eglinton LRT underground.

Sad and unfortunate.

Quit complaining. SSE is happening; Finch LRT is happening; Eglinton LRT is happening and it won't be all underground.

 

[syn]

Another ignorant comment coming from either side of the fence. This thread is pure comedy

An assessment, based on the absolute nonsense sprouted by SSE fans.

I'm sure most have of course, but by transit? It doesn't appear so.

Quit complaining. SSE is happening; Finch LRT is happening; Eglinton LRT is happening and it won't be all underground.

Complaining? Just addressing some ridiculous suggestions in this thread, ones you seem to have no problem with.

All of this matters, unfortunately, as ignorant attitudes about the rest of Toronto have played a large role in approving this planning disaster.

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

But if an overpriced LRT was being planned to replace the SRT, most of you would say it is still a great idea.

 

[Hopkins123]

But if an overpriced LRT was being planned to replace the SRT, most of you would say it is still a great idea.

But at an estimated $2.8 billion, the Scarborough LRT plan was overpriced! Think about it, that's two-thirds of the cost of just building a brand new exclusive underground right of way up McCowan regardless that'll save like 10 minutes travel times off the average commute. A Subway ergo is an investment well spent!

 

[Juan_Lennon416]

I don't like how one stop costs so many billions of dollars but we need to get past these subway vs LRT catfights that lead to nothing

 

[Rainforest]

Complaining? Just addressing some ridiculous suggestions in this thread, ones you seem to have no problem with.

Why should I have a problem with suggestions that have no chance of being accepted by the City and/or Metrolinx.

 

[syn]

But if an overpriced LRT was being planned to replace the SRT, most of you would say it is still a great idea.

At $1.4 billion the previous LRT plan could've been considered overpriced relative to refitting the current RT. However, even factoring in cost increases, it provided 7 stops, greater access, the necessary capacity and far greater value than any of the subway plans.

 

[Leo_Chan]

At $1.4 billion the previous LRT plan could've been considered overpriced relative to refitting the current RT. However, even factoring in cost increases, it provided 7 stops, greater access, the necessary capacity and far greater value than any of the subway plans.

I don’t this this debate is about value or coverage for the subway side. All SSE advocates only care about a subway and the destination, no matter the cost nor coverage. On the other hand, SLRT of RT conversion advocates care about value and coverage for the money. These two ideals will never be able to cooperate unless one side gives up or one let’s the other step above. This is just my opinion, please correct me if I said anything incorrect.

 

[OneCity]

I don’t this this debate is about value or coverage for the subway side. All SSE advocates only care about a subway and the destination, no matter the cost nor coverage. On the other hand, SLRT of RT conversion advocates care about value and coverage for the money. These two ideals will never be able to cooperate unless one side gives up or one let’s the other step above. This is just my opinion, please correct me if I said anything incorrect.

Not so black and white. The Politcal history Is decades long and in recent history there was compromising alternatives on the table.

Even most hardened subway to SCC advocate's would have welcomed a compromise for better connectivity. The LRT connected to the Crosstown was our first compromise and it was rejected. The second compromise was the subway on the RT corridor and then it was rejected.

The politics make it difficult. Most subway advocates are not happy having a 6km line with no stops but Tory has seized the opportunity politically and the stops have been completely neutered with moderate interest from the "evidence based" LRT council to change that.

Unfortunately most residents just want action and having SCC connected was always of importance so now so it'll likely be built in his form of Smarttrack - 1 stop if Tory is back in as Mayor and council refuses to add a stop back in at the hospital. If anyone else is Mayor.... dear lord.

A value compromise is no longer on the table and the costs of backtracking could be even more severe to Politics more than cost. I just hope they add the Lawrence stop and move on and this doesn't happen again on Sheppard.