Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[OneCity]

The TTC's latest estimate, which assumed that construction didn't start until Crosstown was completed, which was a major factor in the inflated costs. When questioned on it, they admitted that there was nothing preventing construction from starting sooner.

We have a new report that says there will be challenges in starting it sooner. If we snapped or fingers today and changed back with no further squabbles from council (Not happening) then it still need to go for an EA because of the changes in Smarttrack. Now a consultant has also brought into question the RT structures durability and that would have to be studied. This could take 2-3 years from initiation IMO. Eglinton East would start year before and also has to be reviewed. Smarttrack has thrown a wrench into all plans and this is not being discussed at all in the media. Not a good situation

 

[wilson_wu]

Is there any remote possibility this entire subway project will implode and the TTC will end up with Mark IIIs?

I actually much prefer getting Mark III over LRT trains.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I'm pretty sure Ellesmere Stn was axed because it's presently the least used station in the system and the need to start the curvature to get into the east-west SRT alignment has to start south of the existing station. But that doesn't mean - especially after the loss of Midland Station that Ellesmere's numbers couldn't improve. The lack of connection to every passing York Mills bus, like at Lawrence East, is the biggest drawback to numbers.

They should put Ellemere back anyway. Forcing people to take the bus to STC or York Mills or Don Mills York Mills on the DRL will still be a long bus ride
“Today, as my council colleagues prepare to debate the current alignment of the Scarborough Subway, I am going to make another prediction.

“I predict that contrary to Mayor Tory’s politically-driven agenda, the current white elephant of the Line 2 extension to Scarborough Centre – vigorously championed by the mayor – will never get built.



“While I support Scarborough getting a subway, I do not support the Mayor's alignment for many reasons:

1. When the Mayor introduced SmartTrack, it made the one-stop extension completely irrelevant. The lines will cannibalize each other's ridership and viability;
   
   
2. Reducing the Scarborough Subway Extension from three stops to one will not help create a comprehensive transit network for the city;
   
   
3. The ballooning costs of the Scarborough Subway Extension are not justified in the face of SmartTrack and severe lack of connectivity.
   

“I have a plan that accomplishes the goal of getting a subway out to Scarborough Centre in a way that makes transit sense and financial sense for Scarborough and hardworking taxpayers, and accomplishes real city building goals.

“City Council should redirect the funding from the one-stop subway to an extension of the Sheppard Subway to Scarborough Town Centre, and a westward extension to Sheppard West station. This alignment will connect to SmartTrack/RER and help create a seamless network for residents in the suburbs.

“Torontonians deserve real leadership. Scarborough residents deserve real transit connections. The current Scarborough Subway alignment may be good for Mayor Tory's re-election bid, but it is not good for Scarborough or Toronto.

Mammo right on the situation, dicey on the solution IMO.

 

[dowlingm]

We have a new report that says there will be challenges in starting it sooner

who is "we"? If this is a TTC report, or a Metrolinx one, presumably it is public so why not link it to your post?

 

[OneCity]

who is "we"? If this is a TTC report, or a Metrolinx one, presumably it is public so why not link it to your post?

"We" -All stakeholders in the City. You, me, council, TTC......

It was in the latest subway report to the TTC I believe. Steve Munro discussed it in a response a week ago. I posted that link the other day

 

[salsa]

Amazingly, John Tory continues to double down on his alternative reality.

 

[sixrings]

Ryerson VS the common man

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Is there any remote possibility this entire subway project will implode and the TTC will end up with Mark IIIs?

I actually much prefer getting Mark III over LRT trains.

I don't know how this province can even afford this subway really.

I wouldn't be surprised if it does implode with that exact result. In which case, everybody involved in the Scarborough transit debacle will deserve the humiliation.

My only concern is how this will affect the Relief Line.

 

[OneCity]

I don't know how this province can even afford this subway really.

I wouldn't be surprised if it does implode with that exact result. In which case, everybody involved in the Scarborough transit debacle will deserve the humiliation.

My only concern is how this will affect the Relief Line.

I would be very surprised. While i'm sure it sounds nice to some, its not even a consideration in the Political chain of reality. You would be worried about more than the relief line should that happen. Todays Politics would be seen as peaceful compared to what would happen after a result like that

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I would be very surprised. While i'm sure it sounds nice to some, its not even a consideration in the Political chain of reality. You would be worried about more than the relief line should that happen. Todays Politics would be seen as peaceful compared to what would happen after a result like that

I mean, I am all for transit expansion and stuff. But the province's debt isn't going away anytime soon, especially with subway projects like this one, and we are looking at the prospect of PC victory in 2018. Ostensibly, we have greater transit priorities in this province in GO-RER and the DRL too.

I can reasonably foresee a Mike Harris-like cancellation of transit plans. Scarborough ridings are not nearly as important for the PC's as recent years of political pandering have led us to believe. You think the PC's rural Ontario base will approve of a white elephant *Toronto* subway expansion boondoggle? How will supporting this subway look next to sentences containing "fiscal restraint" and "responsibility" and "balanced budget" and "debt ceiling". Oh, but *Toronto* deserves a subway expansion into Scarborough you say?

Hell, if the Liberals flip-flopped on the Scarborough subway (as impossibly as that might seem today) after Patrick Brown has publicly double-downed on the subway, that could be just enough to secure another Liberal government.

 

[Hopkins123]

My original question wasn't clear. Ellesmere was among the least of the Murray alignment issues.

• The principal one was having to build an entirely new subway station at Kennedy (to avoid the need to bend the line back from Eglinton and then cut into the existing alignment to migrate the line over to the SRT alignment. In addition to the SRT being down, this now took Line 2 down between Kennedy and Warden so that the new stretch could undergo track and power work and then commissioning/testing.
• As a secondary issue, this would involve all design costs at Kennedy being thrown away and an entirely new terminus for Crosstown having to be designed.
• Getting any future Crosstown East line off Eglinton and into a NW-SE aligned station would likely be interesting also.

Rebuilding Kennedy Station is still far more affordable than the McCowan alignment, and permits not only intermediate stations but even more stations with easier expansion beyond STC. Some forumers here like to tout a 7-stop LRT line but neglect to acknowledge we could just as well build a 7-8 stop subway line in the same alignment as the SRT as well.

I'm just not getting this phobia to shut down the SRT line while construction is going on. It's like they're trying to blackmail/ransom Scarborough into accepting the McCowan alignment no matter the cost just to avoid a slight couple year's inconvenience. Just last week the subway was shutdown between Warden and Kennedy and people survived.

 

[salsa]

I don't know how this province can even afford this subway really.

Easy. Their financial contribution remains exactly the same as the former LRT plan. The Liberals are in a sweet position where they get to milk the political benefits of the subway for their own advantage as they pretend to care about Scarborough, without actually contributing more money toward it. If anything it's actually the city that's being financially screwed, but John Tory is too busy lying and citing fictitious beliefs of "real people" to care about that.

 

[jje1000]

Rebuilding Kennedy Station is still far more affordable than the McCowan alignment, and permits not only intermediate stations but even more stations with easier expansion beyond STC. Some forumers here like to tout a 7-stop LRT line but neglect to acknowledge we could just as well build a 7-8 stop subway line in the same alignment as the SRT as well.

I'm just not getting this phobia to shut down the SRT line while construction is going on. It's like they're trying to blackmail/ransom Scarborough into accepting the McCowan alignment no matter the cost just to avoid a slight couple year's inconvenience. Just last week the subway was shutdown between Warden and Kennedy and people survived.

My biggest problem with the whole way the Scarborough subway has been going so far, IMO.

Sure, build a subway to STC, but tunneling all the way is a complete waste of money.

 

[OneCity]

Rebuilding Kennedy Station is still far more affordable than the McCowan alignment, and permits not only intermediate stations but even more stations with easier expansion beyond STC. Some forumers here like to tout a 7-stop LRT line but neglect to acknowledge we could just as well build a 7-8 stop subway line in the same alignment as the SRT as well.

I'm just not getting this phobia to shut down the SRT line while construction is going on. It's like they're trying to blackmail/ransom Scarborough into accepting the McCowan alignment no matter the cost just to avoid a slight couple year's inconvenience. Just last week the subway was shutdown between Warden and Kennedy and people survived.

This is exactly how many of us feel.

 

[christiesplits]

Amazingly, John Tory continues to double down on his alternative reality.

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This is as Fordian as I've ever seen Tory.