Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[OneCity]

I'm wondering if the outright exclusion of a Lawrence station is even Council's doing. Something seems kinda up with the planning here. Used to be that affordable options were explored and presented, at least preliminarily. Then it'd be up to council to yay or nay toward the high-cost. Like with a station at Lawrence we'd see a low-level viaduct or buried station box below the river (a la York Mills). But now it's as if we skipped that step and moved right to the high-cost option: deep bore or nothing.

Yes Smarttrack had handcuffed City planning from the get-go of Tory's term and the mandate was to get the subway as far away from the RT (smarttrack) corridor as possible. That is what the corridor review was all about. Obviously the costs are anything but low on this corridor but this was optically the easiest option to keep Smarttrack as a thing and still scrape by to keep the subway a thing in combination

Planners will do their best to plan with whatever mandate they are given whether LRT, a 3 stop subway or a smarttrack-subway combo. The RT corridor is out of the question for both subway and LRT for many reasons from RT shutdown, optics, further delays, Smartrack, etc. so the best that can happen is to keep moving forward and for council to approve the stop at Lawrence (even Tory voted for), cancel the Lawrence Smarttrack station and open at Ellesmere possibly in the future. This subway stop will be an issue next election and this Q&A is foreshadowing that rumble from Scarborough.

I have no faith any subway opposition care to loosen their stance here although it only needs a couple votes to reverse, but I expect the pro subway opposition to hammer the Lawrence and Sheppard stops and feed off the support in Scarborough and make this an issue if not adressed

 

[OneCity]

Newsflash. The RT really sucks! Get that garbage outta here and finish the subway loop with stops

 

[crs1026]

I'd want to know what rules they used to pick the properties for some of those locations. The condos at Kipling don't go for $1.2 million. The houses nearby don't either, although some within a km radius might. Same with Islington. How many houses are there near the STC, either? What is the sample size? Single family only, or all dwellings?
I wonder, also, what you want those numbers to be. If prices at STC rise to match the rest of the city, is that a good thing? The 'average' Scarberian won't be able to afford a home there. How do you feel about property values at Lawrence, Ellesmere, and Midland after the SRT closes?
The data seems questionable, and the argument sounds like a gripe looking for data rather than a gripe supported by data.
- PAul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I'd want to know what rules they used to pick the properties for some of those locations. The condos at Kipling don't go for $1.2 million. The houses nearby don't either, although some within a km radius might. Same with Islington. How many houses are there near the STC, either? What is the sample size? Single family only, or all dwellings?
I wonder, also, what you want those numbers to be. If prices at STC rise to match the rest of the city, is that a good thing? The 'average' Scarberian won't be able to afford a home there. How do you feel about property values at Lawrence, Ellesmere, and Midland after the SRT closes?
The data seems questionable, and the argument sounds like a gripe looking for data rather than a gripe supported by data.
- PAul

Also, Kennedy have subway service and yet the price is low. Clearly this is not a subway issue per se.

AoD

 

[OneCity]

Also, Kennedy have subway service and yet the price is low. Clearly this is not a subway issue per se.

AoD

The subway (with stops) will certainly create a more uniform demand and have a positive economic impact thru-out Scarborough as there is a direct correlation between demand and the subway in this City. The RT is not desirable for many reasons and this map helps make it a bit more clear. Surely there are many factors in terms of what makes a location desirable in addition to transit but these are all suppose to be "high order" transit stops we are comparing and something is glaringly different. The RT is isolated, disconnected and out of place amongst its operational other downfalls. The separate LRT network to SCC both here and on Sheppard would ensure this isolation and keep these areas far lower demand.

If the RT corridor was to be continued than subway should have been the only option as its already implemented on a piss poor corridor making the separate technology even more out of place in this City. Connecting Scarborough City Centre on the City's most important transit backbone will become very desirable

Kennedy is different if that its also being held back on zoning but will flourish once its growth restrictions are lifted in the future. With the Eglinton LRT, subway and better connectivity to the City Centre. Kennedy stands to be in high demand in for future no matter what is built.

 

[JGHali]

I'm in Calgary this month and have ended up taking the LRT a fair bit. Last week I had to journey to the extreme southern end of town for a session at a new hospital. I suppose I had a "one-seat ride" all the way; that is, until I had to transfer to a bus. In any case, it's a pretty nice way to get around what is otherwise a very spread out city. But somehow that makes me thing that such technology is just what would fit best in a dispersed low-density area like Scarborough. Of course, I suppose that's not good enough for Scarborough, even though it has half the population of Calgary.

Otherwise, I'd say STC (let's be clear, this is a subway to a mall, not some bustling "city centre") is already connected to the city's arguably most important (or at least busiest) transit "backbone" given that it's right next to the 401.

 

[nfitz]

Newsflash. The RT really sucks! Get that garbage outta here and finish the subway loop with stops.

Then why is Kennedy so cheap? Heck, and Bessarion so expensive, even with the unnecessary transfer to Sheppard line.

 

[jcam]

With the Eglinton LRT, subway and better connectivity to the City Centre. Kennedy stands to be in high demand in for future no matter what is built.

Yes I agree, LRTs going into Kennedy will increase its demand....

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The subway (with stops) will certainly create a more uniform demand and have a positive economic impact thru-out Scarborough as there is a direct correlation between demand and the subway in this City. The RT is not desirable for many reasons and this map helps make it a bit more clear. Surely there are many factors in terms of what makes a location desirable in addition to transit but these are all suppose to be "high order" transit stops we are comparing and something is glaringly different. The RT is isolated, disconnected and out of place amongst its operational other downfalls. The separate LRT network to SCC both here and on Sheppard would ensure this isolation and keep these areas far lower demand.

If the RT corridor was to be continued than subway should have been the only option as its already implemented on a piss poor corridor making the separate technology even more out of place in this City. Connecting Scarborough City Centre on the City's most important transit backbone will become very desirable

Kennedy is different if that its also being held back on zoning but will flourish once its growth restrictions are lifted in the future. With the Eglinton LRT, subway and better connectivity to the City Centre. Kennedy stands to be in high demand in for future no matter what is built.

If you make a blanket assertion, it only takes one example to disprove it. Don't post a simplistic map and argue that it proves your point when it doesn't.

AoD

 

[OneCity]

If you make a blanket assertion, it only takes one example to disprove it. Don't post a simplistic map and argue that it proves your point when it doesn't.

AoD

You can choose to interpret the map anyway you like but don't slag on me because I point of the economic drop off surrounding the glaring abnormality in our Toronto transit map which shouldn't even be a shock to begin with. Id be happy to hear and see proof why you think the RT is a success and worth continuing. But you choose to tell me not to post a piece supporting evidence to the contrary instead.

The map certainly supports the assertion that the RT is inferior compared to the main subway transit trunk in the City. It seems you and a few others have zero tolerance for posts which provide facts to disprove the Scarborough Centre subway should be allowed. There many other reasons above and beyond this map why the RT has been a problem. I just found then map pretty glaring in addition to the other issues with the RT and even mentioned a couple.

This thread is full of blanket assertions. Scroll up a couple posts "subway to a mall". Comparing Torontos existing network to the Calgary LRT. All that baseless rhetoric must resonate with you as you never didn't seem to take issue.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The map certainly supports the assertion that the RT is inferior compared to the main subway transit trunk in the City. Obviously it goes against your preferred connection and posts which only facts to disprove the Scarborough Centre subway should be allowed.

You can choose to interpret the map anyway you like but don't slag on me because I point of the economic drop off surrounding the glaring abnormality in our Toronto transit map which shouldn't even be a shock to begin with.

This thread is full of blanket assertions. See above "subway to a mall".

You didn't answer the question - if it is an RT effect, then why is Kennedy which has subway access has particularly low property values? Or even Warden or Vic Park? Nevermind the methodolgy of the map (which is dubious) - what about land uses - current and preexisting along the route? You're the one who argued that RT is along a mostly industrial area with low ridership that no one uses in the first place, and now you're coming back and say, look, low property values?

AoD

 

[ShonTron]

Enough, @OneCity. You're just trolling at this point.

Everyone else: stop feeding the troll.

 

[OneCity]

You didn't answer the question - if it is an RT effect, then why is Kennedy which has subway access has particularly low property values? Or even Warden or Vic Park?

AoD

I did shed some light.

1. Kennedy has zoning restrictions and is therefore still tired looking around the subway area.
-Once this changes and the LRT comes Kennedy will be a very high demand. Revitalization is needed but this will be a high demand area.

2.East of Kennedy the RT makes for a less desirable "transit" location it becomes in the overall network and has slightly weakened demand but this is secondary as I believe Kennedy is set up to flourish in the coming decades.

Kennedy will be fine. But East of Kennedy around Scarborough Centre there are questions which the technology which greatly impacts Scarborough's future

 

[OneCity]

Enough, @OneCity. You're just trolling at this point.

Everyone else: stop feeding the troll.

Not at all. First and foremost, apologies if I offend somehow? I posted legitimate support as to why I believe the RT is not equal to the subway. Very fair and relevant to this debate. Opposing views seem a problem here and considered trolling I guess? That is not the intention, at all.

The only mockery or trolling I see in UT has moreless to with Scarborough related issues mainly surrounding this line, and is allowed to reside in other threads as well. Very unfortunate to read this post.

 

[ShonTron]

On the matter of applicable rules:

- Stay on topic. Read the thread subject and previous postings carefully before replying to a topic. There is some room to move around in a thread but keep it to a minimum. We want to have a forum that provides knowledge to its members rather than a soapbox for people who just want to add to their post counts. We will warn you if we think you’re posting too often about nothing. Don’t take it personally. We just want the content to stay strong.
- Make sure your posts contribute something meaningful to the thread.

Trolling
- No trolling, which is to say that a post or an ongoing series of posts of an antagonistic and disruptive nature, including borderline pathological attention to certain threads, which add little new perspective or information, and those which will only serve to needlessly and baselessly provoke a particular member or a group of members, are prohibited. An occasional harsh but fair comment would not be considered trolling.