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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

The thing is, Doug Ford finished second to Tory in the Mayor election, and he too has pro-subway.
Four years earlier, Smitherman finished second to Rob Ford and he supported a B-D subway extension to STC.

So even though R. Ford and Tory did not recieve 50% of the vote, the pro-subway (or anti-LRT) vote was much higher
 
Because people were sold that the city could build a subway with the province and federal money. There is only one tax payer until you are selling something you can't afford. It would be like someone house shopping and thinking that their parents and grandparents are going to be paying the mortgage. In that case bring me to Rosedale. Oh wait I have to pay for part of this house, bring me to Scarborough ;)
 
Last surviving former mayor of Scarborough urges council to build LRTs

"Scarborough for Scarborough is improved LRT," says former Scarborough mayor Paul Cosgrove

From link, in The Star:

It’s been nearly 40 years since Paul Cosgrove has sat in council chambers for a good debate.

But it’s the decades-old controversy over transit for Scarborough that is calling him back to city hall next week.

At 81, the last surviving mayor of pre-amalgamation Scarborough will renew his advocacy for light rail to Scarborough’s city centre. Cosgrove told the Star by phone from his home in Brockville that he plans to be in the gallery on Tuesday when the current 45-member council is expected to again debate whether to build a subway or an LRT connection.

“The Scarborough that I knew were practical people,” said Cosgrove, who was mayor from 1973 to 1978. A high-capacity subway, serving far fewer people, was unaffordable then, he said. Now, at an estimated cost of at least $3.2 billion, he said little has changed.

“I’m somewhat baffled by the debate that we’re having now . . . The capital for the subway is not justified. The ridership is not justified. The future maintenance is not justified.”

In Cosgrove’s day, what was then brand-new streetcar technology was proposed for a line in its own right-of way, costing $108.7 million. It was planned to run from the yet-to-be-built Kennedy station on the Bloor-Danforth line to the Scarborough Town Centre, which opened in 1973.

In 1977, the streetcar line was the largest single investment approved by Metro Council in a 23-8 vote. But it didn’t come without “heated debate,” the Star noted then. Even using the cheaper light-rail technology, council critics argued the cost of the project was not justified.

“It was a battle to get people to think that we could even get LRT into Scarborough,” Cosgrove said, adding talk of a further subway extension at the time was “laughable.”

“My push as mayor was to bring some modern sense to Scarborough . . . My thrust was to build a city as they were building North York and Etobicoke.”

While there was and still is a need to connect Scarborough’s centre to the existing TTC system, Cosgrove said the majority of people in Scarborough are looking for a way to get around within Scarborough — what is confirmed by a recent analysis of transit trips studied by the city.

But after Cosgrove’s municipal days, the plans changed again and the trains that now run as the Scarborough RT were introduced — what was a costly and controversial debate that many have argued left Scarborough residents feeling disenfranchised. The RT line opened in 1985.

Cosgrove went on to work on Parliament Hill, where he bunked with fellow Liberal MP and now Scarborough Councillor Norm Kelly. He was later appointed a federal court judge, a position he eventually resigned amid controversy with the Attorney General’s office.

Today, Cosgrove questions why the RT technology was never improved upon, using the same route to build the modern light rail he once dreamed of. That was what was proposed by former mayor David Miller as part of his Transit City plan. And it is still the funded agreement on paper with the province today, despite council’s backing of a subway in 2013 at the urging of former mayor Rob Ford.

“The politicians used to say, ‘vote for me and I’ll put a chicken in every pot,’ kind of thing. And Mr. Ford came along and said vote for me and I’ll put a subway at your front door,” Cosgrove said. “I’m amazed that that myth has taken a hold.”

As plans to design a subway have moved ahead, with Mayor John Tory championing a revised one-stop “express” extension, Cosgrove said a move by some on council to revive the seven-stop LRT that would serve the Town Centre is an honourable goal.

Cosgrove will be watching.

True, he offered up, it will be good to reminisce about the old days of fighting for his eastern part of the city. But mostly he wants to be in the chamber to hear in person the arguments for a subway he still can’t reconcile.

“I can’t fathom that they would carry the day,” he said.

For Scarborough residents, he said proposed spending on a subway — if it means a trade-off of an “improved way of getting around to work and to other things” in the community — would mean “again, they would get the short end of the stick.”
 
The disaster will be next election when the divide shows its ugly head again since there have

Why are we against polls and stats only when they don't support our narrative? If Ford and Tory are so right in public opinion then why don't they have more support? Also if the medias number one goal is to sell newspapers and television news then it would make sense that their motto must be "tell the people what they want to hear." But some here suggest the media is all left wing nuts. Maybe that is the result of their viewers and readers leaning left? If that is true, perhaps these polls are in fact correct.


Believe what you want when it comes to polls. And even if the polls support my preferred narrative I would still take them with a grain of salt and not use them as any type of useful evidence. If you follow politics close enough you'll know exactly who these pollsters are and what they do. Anyhow believe what you want on this front. If you choose to believe. Good for you.

The Election results which are the real polls are being ignored because the media has the power to smother the transit narrative. Transit and equality were 2 BIG election items as well.

Tory barely won the Mayor`s seat over Doug ford. The only reason he won was because a) Some voters on the Left were scared to see another Ford so they plugged their nose. b) Some voters just want to see a compromise & c) Tory has been adamant about acknowledging the transit disrespect towards Scarborough.

Without A and C Ford would have walked away with the Mayoralty. And if you think reverting to transfer LRT is going to do anything to lighten the frustration I think you will be left wondering why the polls were so wrong.

I still support Tory for the moment, and contrary to how many here try to paint me I have never voted for a Ford... Yet. But this is the reality. Doing nothing to try to compromise between both these terrible flawed plans, pushing to revert back to a transfer laden LRT will result in further chaos & delays for all our our transit file and will cause more issues in item outside of transit. The left media has refused to admit the real story & have been working hard to control the message to find a way to get back to power.

Scarborough's only voice is at the ballot box because the media only cares to shed a bad light and focus on the real polarizing views. This only angers people more. Scarborough doesn't have the political power to fight back in the media on transit and control narratives. Tory recognizes this and has been vocal recently calling out the media, & in turn has led to a bit of an attack on him. After such glaring integrations design flaws & the Political climate Its truly a shame a compromise or at least an attempt to put a higher priority on integration is too much too ask.

But if your polls tells you its a good idea to keep fighting for Transfer City it must be true. Keep fighting the good fight.


Last surviving former mayor of Scarborough urges council to build LRTs
"Scarborough for Scarborough is improved LRT," says former Scarborough mayor Paul Cosgrove
From link, in The Star:

Re: Toronto Star articles

Of course there are many in Scarborough that support the LRT plan and many who don't. The Star will find those that do to fit their narrative. It`s a big place with differing needs. The issue is both Polarizing sides want to paint this large area with one brush. The LRT brush or the Subway brush.
Instead of using multiple brushes to build a well design, integrated network when the issues have clearly been identified. The whole debate has been dumbed down & its a shame.

The "transit haves" who are fighting for more funding as the beast is growing care nothing about integration of Scarborough & only want a cheap solution. This has muddied the debate within Scarborough itself to building something intelligent to serve all the areas both in a cost effective & INTEGRATED manner.

Toronto needs to work together a bit better. If not then this black & white nonsense will continue.
 
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The Election results which are the real polls are being ignored because the media has the power to smother the transit narrative. Transit and equality were 2 BIG election items as well.
People don't vote on a single issue, so you can't say anything about subway support based on the election. Many people voted with an 'anybody but Ford' mindset last election.
 
People don't vote on a single issue, so you can't say anything about subway support based on the election. Many people voted with an 'anybody but Ford' mindset last election.

People I knew that would have otherwise voted for Olivia Chow went with Tory near the end, afraid of Doug Ford. Chow, who supported the LRT, was in first place for quite a while, until her campaign faltered (she ran a terrible campaign) and Tory ended up picking up the endorsements from the Liberals and business groups.

The Church/Wellesley area should have been Chow's. It ended up splitting as voters there were highly motivated by ABF.
 
People don't vote on a single issue, so you can't say anything about subway support based on the election. Many people voted with an 'anybody but Ford' mindset last election.

Transit was a HUGE issue in the last election. But you are right many people voted out of fear. Fear of the Polarization caused by the lack of acknowledgement of a major problem in this City with suburban voices being drowned out on their own issues and even have mud slung by the media using the most polarizing arguments against them to fit an agenda
 
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Transit was a HUGE issue in the last election. But you are right many people voted out of fear. Fear of the Polarization cause by the lack of acknowledgement that there major problem with the suburban voices being drown out on their own issues and even have mud slung at them by using the most polarising arguments against them in the media.
No, Ford was a HUGE issue in the last election.
 
The simple fact is, for every change of direction, there will be a 3-5 year detour as the plans are changed again and the finances are reshuffled. Had the original TC plan gone through the line wouldve been well under construction in time for the 2020 launch as planned (if im not mistaken). Instead Ford threw that away, just for a hybrid to come earlier this year and not back to square one with the LRT push. Sure Tory may be pushing for a subway, but I also feel that despite the rhetoric he honestly just wants to see this thing get going whatever the direction. At this rate every election will see a change of direction and in the years between time and money is being wasted for a counterargument and and another fucking "study." They really ought to just do a final
BINDING referendum to Scarborough residents only with a simple majority (or a redo if lets say a 60% favourite isnt met). Either subway, LRT , rebuild SRT with new cars and maybe BRT. Whatever the outcome just stick with and dont look back. Deal with whatever consequences later because at this point, its either 3B now or 5 more years and possibly the same amount or more if you change so there really wont be much difference.

As for the Feds and Provs. give them an ultimatum just like Brampton. Any more changes after this and we pull the plug and give the money to DRL or YN. Scarborough has had enough time to whine, complain and flip flop on our tax money. At this point,
they should make up their mind or just move out.
 
No, Ford was a HUGE issue in the last election.

The Fords are bi product of a specific party not listening to the differing voices in the suburbs on their own issues. Until this problem is addressed (which Tory is fighting to do & now being attacked by the Left for it) You & I will have Ford types as a problem in Politics. Its the only outlet the suburban people have to voice their anger on MANY topics and issues.

That's all im warning for those who think any good is coming out of the fight for Transfer City. Time would be better served working together so we can all avoid the Polarization. But hey when you can control the message in the media I guess they feel like they can keep pushing.

There has been nothing but the same ol` narrow minded rhettoric from the Left even after a another beat last election. Heads are buried deep and they are offering zero compromise to solve these complicated issues.

Tory is at least trying to find a solution although facts are coming out that alternatives need to be reviewed on the subway file. So lets focus on alternatives instead of trying to be opportunistic to pounce & bring back a divisive plan that focus on cost and not connectivity. Surely we can do a bit of both with some Political will and a less aggressive stance.

Picking and choosing the voices in the suburbs which suit the political preferences from areas outside is not healthy for growth in Scarborough as the decisions get falsified and unfairly skewed.
The fact we only have "one size fits all" Transfer LRT vs. Expensive Subway polarizing nonsense is truly a shame. And even worse that people fight to defend either one of these plans.
 
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The Fords are bi product of a specific party not listening to the differing voices in the suburbs on their own issues.

I would be curious what you believe these disregarded issues are? Is this all tied to densification in one way or the other?

- Paul
 
I would be curious what you believe these disregarded issues are? Is this all tied to densification in one way or the other?

- Paul

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/com...orough-deserves-respect-fairness-hepburn.html

On Ford and 2010 election
For years, proud Scarborough residents have raged against the “Scarberia” image in the firm belief they aren’t treated fairly when it comes to everything from transit to parks and schools.

Occasionally that seething anger erupts into the open — with stunning force.

That’s what happened in the 2010 mayoral race when Rob Ford swept the area by a huge margin over George Smitherman, his downtown challenger. Ford campaigned on a wildly successful theme that boiled down to: “I love you; I hear your pain; and I’m going to take care of you.”

On the subway
On the subway, Scarborough residents see a new line going to the Vaughan city centre and a proposed extension of the Yonge line to Richmond Hill and ask why, if the subway is okay for these 905 regions, isn’t it okay for Scarborough.

For them, it’s just doesn’t seem fair.

On everything else
Adding to their sense of being treated unfairly is everything from parks to art festivals and bike lanes.

Why hasn’t Luminato, the city-sponsored arts festival, ever held an event in Scarborough? Why does the city spend countless dollars to create Sugar Beach on the waterfront at the foot of Jarvis St., but hasn’t put much money into Bluffer’s Park since it was created in the 1950s? Why isn’t there a decent waterfront trail in Scarborough while the city operates one from the eastern Beach area into Etobicoke? Why does the central campus of The Scarborough Hospital have the oldest operating rooms in the entire province?

Why do guides of top Toronto restaurants fail to list a single place east of Victoria Park Ave. although an international food critic last year declared the area “the best ethnic food suburb” he had ever seen? Why does the city fund huge fireworks displays at Ashbridge’s Bay and Mel Lastman Square in North York, but only gives a pittance for similar events in Scarborough.

The list is endless — and the resentment strong.

On identity and perception
Kelly, who has represented the area as an alderman, federal MP and city councillor for more than 30 years, says that despite efforts to improve the image of the area, the condescending perception of “Scarberia” remains strong.

Like De Baeremaeker, he argues it’s a case of mistaken identity, that while Scarborough has some of the poorest areas in the city, it actually has a lower crime rate than the rest of the city, has beautiful and safe neighbourhoods and a huge, ethnically diverse population that gets along together just fine.

Scarborough residents are generally proud of their area and feel the rest of the city “just doesn’t get it,” Kelly added.

Indeed, it is time the rest of Toronto “gets” Scarborough — and maybe starts to treat it with the respect and fairness it deserves.

Outside of the debate on public transit, the city has done a poor job for Scarborough over the years. The subway issues is the lightning rod for an accumulation of frustration.
The MOU had it right. LRT was going to Scarborough with 7 stops while being merged to Eglinton Crosstown. It eliminated the horrible transfer at Kennedy and would have ended this pointless debate.
But, city council hated the messenger and led by the ambitious Stinz, killed the plan. Now were here.
 

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