Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[TrickyRicky]

I think you guys are overestimating the significance of these transit projects to the overall economic vitality of the City. Unless they are combined with massive blanket as-of-right residential development re-zoning and these developments bring to the table relatively affordable housing, they basically don’t matter much. Your pushing rapid transit into sprawling areas were the vast majority of people and businesses require and desire travel by car. At the same time almost all the business development and residential development wants to be centrally located and there is comforyably another generation of proposed and available build out there. As such you are really talking about, presuming Toronto continues to grow and prosper, a transit completion schedule of 2040-2045 as fairly reasonable no?

 

[WislaHD]

I think you guys are overestimating the significance of these transit projects to the overall economic vitality of the City. Unless they are combined with massive blanket as-of-right residential development re-zoning and these developments bring to the table relatively affordable housing, they basically don’t matter much. Your pushing rapid transit into sprawling areas were the vast majority of people and businesses require and desire travel by car. At the same time almost all the business development and residential development wants to be centrally located and there is comforyably another generation of proposed and available build out there.

Well, the Relief Line (especially once Relief Line North is built) was supposed to bring Scarborough residents access to the incredible economic and employment opportunities offered downtown.

Not building the Relief Line is condemning Scarborough residents to a future with ever-decreasing access to downtown opportunities as congestion on the roads and on the existing transit network gets worse and worse, while also limiting the downtown business centre from tapping into Scarborough's diverse and plentiful human capital resources.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I think you guys are overestimating the significance of these transit projects to the overall economic vitality of the City. Unless they are combined with massive blanket as-of-right residential development re-zoning and these developments bring to the table relatively affordable housing, they basically don’t matter much. Your pushing rapid transit into sprawling areas were the vast majority of people and businesses require and desire travel by car. At the same time almost all the business development and residential development wants to be centrally located and there is comforyably another generation of proposed and available build out there. As such you are really talking about, presuming Toronto continues to grow and prosper, a transit completion schedule of 2040-2045 as fairly reasonable no?

DRL is definitely critical for the continued growth of downtown.

I wouldn't say any of the others are critical for the future of Toronto.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

These are a list of the Provinces current priority projects that were already under design to various extents.

Sheppard design hasnt even started and should be in the next wave priority for this admin. Its a project that I expect to get design support, which is all that could be expected and required at this time

But who says Doug will win reelections. It's already close to mid 2019. Design would have to start this year or early 2020.

 

[Rainforest]

I think you guys are overestimating the significance of these transit projects to the overall economic vitality of the City. Unless they are combined with massive blanket as-of-right residential development re-zoning and these developments bring to the table relatively affordable housing, they basically don’t matter much. Your pushing rapid transit into sprawling areas were the vast majority of people and businesses require and desire travel by car. At the same time almost all the business development and residential development wants to be centrally located and there is comforyably another generation of proposed and available build out there. As such you are really talking about, presuming Toronto continues to grow and prosper, a transit completion schedule of 2040-2045 as fairly reasonable no?

DRL is essential for the city as a whole, because the ability to attract employees and shoppers is an important part of keeping the downtown appealing.

Other transit projects may not be absolutely vital, but they are going to make the lives of existing residents better by reducing the amount of time they are wasting on commute.

 

[Rainforest]

Looks good.

Stops are being added. No surprises here. Que the usual downtown Left wing tantrum and fear mongering. Too bad no one can do anything to filibuster the plan this time

View attachment 178503

A notable phrase in Section 1: "However, the province is committed to a three-stop extension of Line 2, with the same terminus point".

The original 3-stop plan had the terminus at Sheppard & McCowan, which is not same as Scarborough Town Centre.

Is it just a mistake in the report? Or, is it an indication that the province wants to build 2 intermediate stops at Brimley / Eglinton and at Lawrence East, but not to extend the line past STC? If the latter, then it wouldn't cost much more than the one-stop plan.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

A notable phrase in Section 1: "However, the province is committed to a three-stop extension of Line 2, with the same terminus point".

The original 3-stop plan had the terminus at Sheppard & McCowan, which is not same as Scarborough Town Centre.

Is it just a mistake in the report? Or, is it an indication that the province wants to build 2 intermediate stops at Brimley / Eglinton and at Lawrence East, but not to extend the line past STC? If the latter, then it wouldn't cost much more than the one-stop plan.

A few days after that they said they wanted to build it to Sheppard. I’m not convinced they know what they want to do.

 

[nfitz]

If the latter, then it wouldn't cost much more than the one-stop plan.

Adding two more stations wouldn't cost as much more as one stations and extending it, but it will still cost a lot.

And a real loss really, as pushing Line 2 north of the 401 bottleneck was genius.

Personally if it had to be subway, I favoured a 4-station extension, with Brimely/Eglinton, Lawrence East, Scarborough Centre and Sheppard.

 

[Rainforest]

I’m not convinced they know what they want to do.

That's true. People with authority might not understand details, while people who understand those details don't have the authority to commit to anything.

 

[Northern Light]

A notable phrase in Section 1: "However, the province is committed to a three-stop extension of Line 2, with the same terminus point".

The original 3-stop plan had the terminus at Sheppard & McCowan, which is not same as Scarborough Town Centre.

Is it just a mistake in the report? Or, is it an indication that the province wants to build 2 intermediate stops at Brimley / Eglinton and at Lawrence East, but not to extend the line past STC? If the latter, then it wouldn't cost much more than the one-stop plan.

The rough cost metric in use is 200M per station, so adding two stops is about 400M.

* obviously this varies by station depth, capacity and presence and size of bus terminal.

 

[BurlOak]

A notable phrase in Section 1: "However, the province is committed to a three-stop extension of Line 2, with the same terminus point".

The original 3-stop plan had the terminus at Sheppard & McCowan, which is not same as Scarborough Town Centre.

Is it just a mistake in the report? Or, is it an indication that the province wants to build 2 intermediate stops at Brimley / Eglinton and at Lawrence East, but not to extend the line past STC? If the latter, then it wouldn't cost much more than the one-stop plan.

It looks like this link hasn't been posted in this thread. https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2019/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-131253.pdf
It is dated 4 days later, and specifically says that it is clarifying the previous letter.
It looks like they do want to go past STC (likely to Sheppard).
Although I thought for a long time that they should see if part of all of the CPR Agincourt yard is available for a subway train yard, and then the terminus could be Finch.

 

[Rainforest]

The rough cost metric in use is 200M per station, so adding two stops is about 400M.

* obviously this varies by station depth, capacity and presence and size of bus terminal.

I would assume Brimley / Eglinton would be on the low end (easy design and no bus terminal). Lawrence East may be near average (design is more tricky due to the creek, but no bus terminal). Even if those two stops add up to 400M, that's a moderate cost compared to the amount already committed.

 

[nfitz]

I would assume Brimley / Eglinton would be on the low end (easy design and no bus terminal). Lawrence East may be near average (design is more tricky due to the creek, but no bus terminal). Even if those two stops add up to 400M, that's a moderate cost compared to the amount already committed.

Isn't $200 million per station a few years out of date? Also isn't Lawrence East very deep?

 

[BurlOak]

Isn't $200 million per station a few years out of date? Also isn't Lawrence East very deep?

not if they make it shallow. (i.e. Old Mill or Leslie style).

 

[Northern Light]

Isn't $200 million per station a few years out of date? Also isn't Lawrence East very deep?

200M was the figure used in the TYSSE, which is our most recent example.

But yes, Lawrence East was contemplated as super deep.