Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

[innsertnamehere]

There was a major update in mid-August. The information in her report pertains to the timing and cost update.

I have no problem with her updates given the colossal price attached to this project and the fact that many continue to be in the dark about what it entails.

the updates are always negative however - and there is nowhere near as much analysis spent on the dozen other large scale projects underway across the GTA - how about the Eglinton Crosstown which has similar ridership numbers to the Scarborough Subway and costs 60% more? Nothing but positive fluff articles on that one..

 

[syn]

the updates are always negative however - and there is nowhere near as much analysis spent on the dozen other large scale projects underway across the GTA - how about the Eglinton Crosstown which has similar ridership numbers to the Scarborough Subway and costs 60% more? Nothing but positive fluff articles on that one..

The update I linked to was negative? How?

Are you seriously comparing a 25 stop project that spans a large portion of the city with a one stop subway extension?

How many rapid transit stops are being removed to implement the Eglinton Crosstown?

The cost of the SSE continues to rise ultimately the capital costs may be comparable.

There's well deserved scrutiny of the SSE that doesn't apply to the Crosstown.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The update I linked to was negative? How?

Are you seriously comparing a 25 stop project that spans a large portion of the city with a one stop subway extension?

How many rapid transit stops are being removed to implement the Eglinton Crosstown?

The cost of the SSE continues to rise ultimately the capital costs may be comparable.

There's well deserved scrutiny of the SSE that doesn't apply to the Crosstown.

You're link wasn't Pagliario.

Here are the titles of her scarborough subway articles. Some are accurate, but many take a totally negative view.

"Experts call Scarborough subway funding proposal ‘far-fetched"
"Province’s push for private funding, additional stops puts Scarborough subway at risk of delays"
"Design changes to Scarborough subway come with unknown costs"
"Is the Scarborough subway good value for money?"
"One-stop subway plan needs ‘rethink’ with 25 LRT stops possible, critics say"

You get the picture There are probably 100+ articles like this that have been published by the star over the last 5 years.

I'm not trying to get into the details and merits of each project - simply observing that the level of media analysis on Scarborough has vastly exceeded any other major transit project.

 

[syn]

You're link wasn't Pagliario.

Here are the titles of her scarborough subway articles. Some are accurate, but many take a totally negative view.

"Experts call Scarborough subway funding proposal ‘far-fetched"
"Province’s push for private funding, additional stops puts Scarborough subway at risk of delays"
"Design changes to Scarborough subway come with unknown costs"
"Is the Scarborough subway good value for money?"
"One-stop subway plan needs ‘rethink’ with 25 LRT stops possible, critics say"

You get the picture There are probably 100+ articles like this that have been published by the star over the last 5 years.

I'm not trying to get into the details and merits of each project - simply observing that the level of media analysis on Scarborough has vastly exceeded any other major transit project.

Are they negative or are they realistic?

 

[tiffer24]

Doug Ford’s government intends to take over Toronto's subways to make radical changes to four major transit projects, while signalling projected costs for two planned lines have soared.

Provincial official writes that the city’s cost projections for two of the projects, the Scarborough subway extension and the first phase of the downtown relief line, “have significantly increased to nearly double or greater than the figures released publicly.”

https://twitter.com/x/status/1110673687483699202

 

[OneCity]

Looks good.

Stops are being added. No surprises here. Que the usual downtown Left wing tantrum and fear mongering. Too bad no one can do anything to filibuster the plan this time

 

[nfitz]

Looks good.

Stops are being added.

Either stops are being added or Doug Ford is lying. Gosh ... Doug Ford has never lied before, so I guess this is settled. Close the thread!

I personally don't think for a second there's any truth to Michael Lindsay's ":speed up work on these projects" comment. There's no way he can beat the current 2026 date for Line 2 extension and 2029 for the DRL. And if they go for the usual provincial PPP model, that will slow things down, as they have to advance the design much much further before they complete the bidding process. And that process doesn't make things any cheaper!

Sad to see Doug Ford screwing Scarborough so badly.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Either stops are being added or Doug Ford is lying. Gosh ... Doug Ford has never lied before, so I guess this is settled. Close the thread!

I personally don't think for a second there's any truth to Michael Lindsay's ":speed up work on these projects" comment. There's no way he can beat the current 2026 date for Line 2 extension and 2029 for the DRL. And if they go for the usual provincial PPP model, that will slow things down, as they have to advance the design much much further before they complete the bidding process. And that process doesn't make things any cheaper!

Sad to see Doug Ford screwing Scarborough so badly.

Remember the last time QP stopped transit procurement to protect us from financial risk and speed up construction? The ECLRT was then delayed by a year as a direct result of the move, and it still went over budget. And there's still 2.5 years of construction to go, with many stations still being little more than a pit in the ground (that means plenty of opportunity for delays and cost overruns; remember, TYSSE was still on time and on budget at this point in construction).

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Looks good.

Stops are being added. No surprises here.

With what money???

I mean, if the one-stop config doubled in costs from $3.5 to $7 Billion, with an additional two stops yet to be added...

 

[TheTigerMaster]

QP officials claim costs have doubled and the City official claim that they have not. This sounds like QP setting up the pretence for canceling these projects. "Oops, they're too expensive, we can't build them". I wonder what kind of twisted financial analysis QP used to claim that costs have "doubled"

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

the updates are always negative however - and there is nowhere near as much analysis spent on the dozen other large scale projects underway across the GTA - how about the Eglinton Crosstown which has similar ridership numbers to the Scarborough Subway and costs 60% more? Nothing but positive fluff articles on that one..

Well that crosses through 5 boroughs and is a provincial problem.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Where is sheppard east in that report @OneCity ?

 

[Leo_Chan]

QP officials claim costs have doubled and the City official claim that they have not. This sounds like QP setting up the pretence for canceling these projects. "Oops, they're too expensive, we can't build them". I wonder what kind of twisted financial analysis QP used to claim that costs have "doubled"

Negative opportunity costs and benefits?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Remember the last time QP stopped transit procurement to protect us from financial risk and speed up construction? The ECLRT was then delayed by a year as a direct result of the move, and it still went over budget. And there's still 2.5 years of construction to go...

RE the SSE specifically: procurement takes time. In many cases (as we've seen right here) it takes years. Restarting procurement will result in significant delays to the SSE, that is beyond question. On top of that, this government wants to find a private sector partner willing to pay for their additional two stations. That process takes time, and private sector partner will almost certainly fail to materialize. On top of that, it will take significant time to design the additional two stops.

I'm going to wait for official plans to come out from the government, but it certainly looks like the Relief Line, Scarbrough Subway and Eglinton West LRT are stillborn at this point. I cannot fathom how any of these three projects could begin construction within this political term. Don't let the government's misdirection fool you: these projects are dead.

 

[OneCity]

Where is sheppard east in that report @OneCity ?

These are a list of the Provinces current priority projects that were already under design to various extents.

Sheppard design hasnt even started and should be in the next wave priority for this admin. Its a project that I expect to get design support, which is all that could be expected and required at this time