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2014 Ontario Provincial Election

Sorry Albertans and BC got higher level of personal debt than Ontario.

AoD

44.9% of Ontarians use more than 20% of their disposable (ie after tax) income to service their mortgages....Prairies (sorry statscan does not break out by province) are at 15.7% and BC is at 17.4%.

59.5% of all Ontarians have a mortgage.....57.3% in the prairies and 54.5% in BC.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/75-001-x/2011002/tables-tableaux/11429/tbl003-eng.htm

As for non-mortgage debt, Alberta saw a spike after the floods (presumably people making short term borrowings to cover expenses and make home repairs) but the RBC report spoken of here has Ontario having more non-mortgage debt than BC.

http://globalnews.ca/news/932307/debt-levels-surge-in-western-canada-new-survey-shows/

Combined, the mortgage and non-mortgage debt relative to incomes is higher in Ontario than either of those provinces.
 
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The answer I looked for (and asked every Liberal I met during the election) was....if taking a deficit of $11.3 billion to balance in 2 years is drastic/devastating why is taking a $12.5B deficit to balance in 2 years not equally or more drastic/devastating?

Because you are raising taxes in the process and finding new revenue sources for infrastructure projects, rather than firing people to fund tax cuts for the wealthiest as per Hudak's nonsensical platform.
 
44.9% of Ontarians use more than 20% of their disposable (ie after tax) income to service their mortgages....Prairies (sorry statscan does not break out by province) are at 15.7% and BC is at 17.4%.

59.5% of all Ontarians have a mortgage.....57.3% in the prairies and 54.5% in BC.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/75-001-x/2011002/tables-tableaux/11429/tbl003-eng.htm

As for non-mortgage debt, Alberta saw a spike after the floods (presumably people making short term borrowings to cover expenses and make home repairs) but the RBC report spoken of here has Ontario having more non-mortgage debt than BC.

http://globalnews.ca/news/932307/debt-levels-surge-in-western-canada-new-survey-shows/

Combined, the mortgage and non-mortgage debt relative to incomes is higher in Ontario than either of those provinces.

Not quite:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/life/Alberta+personal+debt+second+highest+Canada/8475417/story.html

Anyways, considering the variance isn't that huge - your thesis of Ontarians being more comfortable with debt vis-a-vis other provinces is problematical (esp. considering like in BC and AB it is skewed by high property prices).

AoD
 
44.9% of Ontarians use more than 20% of their disposable (ie after tax) income to service their mortgages....Prairies (sorry statscan does not break out by province) are at 15.7% and BC is at 17.4%.

If you look at the stats again, the numbers you're referring to are based on % of total Canadian mortgage holders, not % of the provinces' mortgage holders. The difference is not as big as you make out to be, since Ontario makes up 37.5% of Canadian households, whereas the Prairies and BC are 18.3% and 14.9% respectively.
 
Because you are raising taxes in the process and finding new revenue sources for infrastructure projects, rather than firing people to fund tax cuts for the wealthiest as per Hudak's nonsensical platform.

Are we gonna re-hash this.....they have dismissed, and promissed to not implement, all tax increases other than the change on taxation for people above $150k per year.....that tax they project will bring in around $600 million per year and is already included in the budget that carries a $12.5B deficit.

So having avowed to not cut positions (I think the words she used were "every public service job is sacred") and having introduced all the tax increases she claims she will......how do we eliminate a $12.5B deficit?

As I have repeated several times....I came into this election wanting to vote Liberal to see that transit plan implmented but I needed a credible plan to balance the budget not just "it will be balanced, we promise".
 
Are we gonna re-hash this.....they have dismissed, and promissed to not implement, all tax increases other than the change on taxation for people above $150k per year.....that tax they project will bring in around $600 million per year and is already included in the budget that carries a $12.5B deficit.

So having avowed to not cut positions (I think the words she used were "every public service job is sacred") and having introduced all the tax increases she claims she will......how do we eliminate a $12.5B deficit?

As I have repeated several times....I came into this election wanting to vote Liberal to see that transit plan implmented but I needed a credible plan to balance the budget not just "it will be balanced, we promise".

Just give it up.

Of course she will lie or deceive.

Maybe the same budget is re-introduced, but then in September an economic statement is given which includes all the "revenue tools" to collect a few Billion a year. She may may lay off a few people, but she will do so with compassion, whereas Hudak would have done it because he enjoys putting people out of work. In 4 years, she can always ask for forgiveness again.
 
Hey guys listen up...

I'm excited for the transit coming. Eglinton, DRL, UPX, Sheppard and Finch West LRTs, Waterloo, Hamilton, Missisauga, All day GO and electrification. I am just writing to the forum that I was wrong and the Liberals got reelected, sixrings, nfitz, AoD, shontron, GenerationW I should have known better and deferred to people with much more knowledge than I. I am sorry for not listening and doing more talking. I am excited for the future and and hope to see the impact of Transit in the GTA very soon. I look forward to keep discussing this with you all without being so disruptive.


:D
 
Let's just hope that in 4 years the other parties regroup a little. The PCs need to realize that neoliberaliam is not going to sell here anymore, and need to come back with a moderate platform. Likewise the NDP did well, but they missed the urban angle of their platform.

That said, the Greens had arguably the best platform, and should stay the course. They likely would have done better if so many yokels were willing to put Harris 2.0 into office.

The worst case scenario is that in 4 years we are at the same spot: a raging far right party is in a position to take power, and we have to hold our noses and vote Liberal. No disrespect to Wynne, but unless the next 4 years are nothing short of roses and unicorns, it is unlikely that she will be reelected.

Oh, and Frank Klees also lost as well! :-D
 
The worst case scenario is that in 4 years we are at the same spot: a raging far right party is in a position to take power, and we have to hold our noses and vote Liberal. No disrespect to Wynne, but unless the next 4 years are nothing short of roses and unicorns, it is unlikely that she will be reelected.

I think she's proved that she can't be under-estimated. Behind that jovial demeanor is a very cunning politician. I doubt it'll be any easier for the PCs four years from now if they don't come up with a whole new game plan.
 
I think she's proved that she can't be under-estimated. Behind that jovial demeanor is a very cunning politician. I doubt it'll be any easier for the PCs four years from now if they don't come up with a whole new game plan.

Perhaps, but the people want change. The Liberals have been in power for 11 years now, which is a very long time. In a democracy it is important to change things up, to keep parties from becoming complacent.

On that note, it has become clear that people will not accept change for the sake of change. Meaning that we will stick with a mediocre party which keeps the wheels rolling rather than switch to one who will just blow up the whole damn vehicle.
 
Perhaps, but the people want change. The Liberals have been in power for 11 years now, which is a very long time. In a democracy it is important to change things up, to keep parties from becoming complacent.

Not sure how, after yesterday, anyone can suggest that the people of Ontario want change. They voted in large numbers to maintain the current government that is going to continue on the same path of deficits and spending. I may not agree with that, I may not have voted for it but it is pretty clear that Ontarians did not vote for change yesterday....at least not in any significant numbers.
 
Perhaps, but the people want change. The Liberals have been in power for 11 years now, which is a very long time. In a democracy it is important to change things up, to keep parties from becoming complacent.

On that note, it has become clear that people will not accept change for the sake of change. Meaning that we will stick with a mediocre party which keeps the wheels rolling rather than switch to one who will just blow up the whole damn vehicle.

Not necessarily. There was the Big Blue Machine, that lasted over 40 years. The PCs managed to re-invent themselves, and Ontario prospered.

I think today's results demonstrate Ontario's preference for change in moderation. After all Harper did secure his majority in Ontario. He gave Ontario conservatism in moderate doses and managed to hold on power for a decade.
 
Not sure how, after yesterday, anyone can suggest that the people of Ontario want change. They voted in large numbers to maintain the current government that is going to continue on the same path of deficits and spending. I may not agree with that, I may not have voted for it but it is pretty clear that Ontarians did not vote for change yesterday....at least not in any significant numbers.

I don't think it's Ontarians not wanting change, but rather they were rejecting the flavour of change proposed. Ontarians never have a penchant for extremism. This election was always a referendum on Hudak, and Wynne just happened to be the benefactor from all this political drama.
 
Looks like you were on the ball.

Thank you for the kind words. Yeah the final total percentage of Lib 38, PC 33, NDP 23, Grn 5 was pretty close. The projection seat numbers I am guessing was way off due to sites looking at likely numbers that as I thought from the beginning was a total bust and never made sense in the first place. Taking as small sample size and making it smaller by just listing "angry voters" as likely voters is as odd a formula. It's like just listening to angry talk radio callers and making a prediction on that. Ipsos looked the worse with the big PC lead and then the odd 30% NDP surge claim. I personally have found Ipsos not to be as credible since the Ipsos guys wrote the silly book called "The Big Shift" which they claim that a single federal Conservative majority is proof of a big shift to conservatism. Since then they been pushing the RW slant.

The other big loser of the day is Hudak and the Conservatives, what I think we saw was a rejection of hard rightwing politics. The odd thing is he didn't have to do it. American politics, Republican have to go hard right to get the nomination and then have to make a sharp turn to the centre. For some reason Hudak did a full-right turn when he didn't. It also showed the rash that was known as Ford nation is down to a village (if that) I know RWers are quick to blame unions and everybody else, his supporters (media and callers) constant union-bashing didn't help much either when later on he tried to portray himself as a soft-tory. I've said right before the election, a number that caught my eye was Hudak unappealing at 60% compared to Wynne 45%. When the opposition is viewed that negatively, there's a problem with the brand.

Not as much of a loser, but in reality maybe even a bigger blow than Hudak (who we knew would choke) is Horwath. Sure she has the same seats as before. But she went from being queen-maker to irrelevant third party. I seriously think if she just held her cards until the term is over she could have made a very good case to left-of-centre Ontarians that after a Liberal third term, an NDP choice would be best to defeat Hudak. Even if Hudak got a minority government in 2015 she could have formed a coalition with the Libs and become Premier, that all went out the window when she called the election. Lefties all panicked, played it safe and supported the safe choice in the Libs and viewed Horwath as a risky sell-out.

The last of the losers has to be the mainstream media in general, wrong in their endorsement (except for the Star) Wrong on the issue that ended up being important with the voters. Wrong in how they read the polls. Here's the problem with news people reading poll, they look at it as interesting/entertainment, it should be looked at as a science. They see ONE poll with NDP 30% and go "Wow lets run with it" which of course is irresponsible and what you should do is cross-reference with other polls to see it it have any match to it at all. PS if any mainstream media organization wants to reach me for my services, drop me a PM and I won't yell at you too badly lol
 

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