YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Thornhill had become the Scarborough of York region, where irrational people put up a hissy-fit over some freaking transit lanes in the middle of the street.

AND they want a subway! (Though this one is rather more sensible than the Scarborough one )

I thought it was little more than a small group of NIMBY's all worked up about these bus lanes; I don't know how it's spreading except through disinformation. All that to preserve this stunning streetscape. Yeah, it reminds me so much of St. Clair West.

I'm sorry mom couldn't get any traction with her issue, but really, get your own, Josh. I know people need to make a left into the obsolete No Frills but I'm sure we can find something more substantial to discuss, can't we?

This street, with its prime location, abandoned bungalows and too-many lanes is a perfect place for BRT. And even if you win it's outside your jurisdiction and even it was within your jurisdiction, it's a done deal. (seriously - when do they start digging already??)

 

[Electrify]

I've suggested on my YRT Busways Now page (facebook.com/YRTBN) that while there should be service along Centre, another spur which stays on Highway 7 for better through service to Richmond Hill and Markham is also justified.

In Richmond Hill there are already some candidates, including the main opposition to our incumbent, which want to see the Yonge subway up further into Richmond Hill! What these candidates won't tell you is that the Yonge St busway will likely be completed by 2020. Meanwhile the subway to Highway 7 is dependent on the downtown line, which optimistically won't be finished until 2030. Keeping on the optimistic projections, getting the subway from Finch to Highway 7 will likely take another 10 years (2040), and an extension north to Major Mackenzie or Crosby would probably take another 10 years on top of that.

So the options are to have a busway by 2020, or a subway by 2050 - optimistically speaking.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I've suggested on my YRT Busways Now page (facebook.com/YRTBN) that while there should be service along Centre, another spur which stays on Highway 7 for better through service to Richmond Hill and Markham is also justified.

I like that idea and I'm sure it's been kicked around at YRT if it's being kicked around here. I guess we agree, anyway, the bus lanes on Centre make sense. It especially annoys me, the opposition, because the planning for this dates back nearly a decade now, and was all public.

In Richmond Hill there are already some candidates, including the main opposition to our incumbent, which want to see the Yonge subway up further into Richmond Hill! What these candidates won't tell you is that the Yonge St busway will likely be completed by 2020. Meanwhile the subway to Highway 7 is dependent on the downtown line, which optimistically won't be finished until 2030. Keeping on the optimistic projections, getting the subway from Finch to Highway 7 will likely take another 10 years (2040), and an extension north to Major Mackenzie or Crosby would probably take another 10 years on top of that.

So the options are to have a busway by 2020, or a subway by 2050 - optimistically speaking.

Yeah, I think they are starting the busway north from Highway 7 as soon as next year. I've said elsewhere, I think MAYBE you could make an argument for the subway as far north as Major Mac (or certainly to 16) but that's obviously long term. I understand why York Region killed the South Yonge busway when the province said the extension from Finch to 7 was a priority and its unfortunate they're trapped in limbo now. I still think they can get it done before 2040 (I don't think it was to wait until AFTER the DRL, but that's a whole other argument) but there's a lot of pieces in motion.

I saw some Newmarket candidate's literature calling Davis Drive a "disaster," a la St. Clair so clearly BRT opponents, like LRT opponents think you get something for nothing and don't understand how infrastructure construction works. They should look at the pictures of what it took to build the original Yonge subway, IMHO. It's really sad, the level of dialogue this is taking place at but there is, to get back on topic, no doubt in my mind that Centre Street and Davis Drive will both be better places once those lanes are open. Highway 7 is the best location in terms of improving transit service but the lanes will bring real, urban development to ugly suburban corridors in other places and despite the fearmongering, I look forward to it.

 

[Electrify]

And Davis Dr was never really a good through street to begin with, with heavy traffic and lights. Even before the construction most traffic would go north to Green Lane anyways. For those who believe Ford's word that subway construction is not disruptive, they need to check out all the commotion around York University. Hell, the TTC BUILT a BRT just to control the disruptions they expected it to create!

 

[wopchop]

And Davis Dr was never really a good through street to begin with, with heavy traffic and lights. Even before the construction most traffic would go north to Green Lane anyways. For those who believe Ford's word that subway construction is not disruptive, they need to check out all the commotion around York University. Hell, the TTC BUILT a BRT just to control the disruptions they expected it to create!

Exactly. Davis Drive has always been slow. Candidates and residents saying otherwise are having willful amnesia.

The bus lanes will be a great addition to downtown Newmarket, which has a great historic downtown with tons of potential.

I think it would be in the towns best interests to campaign for a Phase 2 that would add BRT along Yonge St from Davis Drive to Mulock. This would add some big trip generators (Huron Heights High school, GO Train Station, Southlake Hospital, York Regional Offices (also houses York Regional Police), Upper Canada Mall, Ontario Courthouse and Sir William Mulock High School). A further fantasy phase (to me) would be along Mulock from Yonge to Leslie, which would add Newmarket High School, Sacred Heart CHS & the Magna Centre to the network. Newmarket has pretty good public transit ridership among high school students, so it would be a good idea IMO to connect all the local schools.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I think it would be in the towns best interests to campaign for a Phase 2 that would add BRT along Yonge St from Davis Drive to Mulock. This would add some big trip generators (Huron Heights High school, GO Train Station, Southlake Hospital, York Regional Offices (also houses York Regional Police), Upper Canada Mall, Ontario Courthouse and Sir William Mulock High School). A further fantasy phase (to me) would be along Mulock from Yonge to Leslie, which would add Newmarket High School, Sacred Heart CHS & the Magna Centre to the network. Newmarket has pretty good public transit ridership among high school students, so it would be a good idea IMO to connect all the local schools.

Phase 2 already exists. The stretch from Mulock to Davis should be going forward very soon, similar timing to the Yonge/Richmond Hill rapidway.

 

[wopchop]

Phase 2 already exists. The stretch from Mulock to Davis should be going forward very soon, similar timing to the Yonge/Richmond Hill rapidway.

I know that it already exists. I think that I worded my post badly. What I'm saying is that instead of complaining about the Davis Drive Rapidway, they should be campaigning to support the stretch from Mulock to Davis in any way possible that will accelerate it's construction and ensure smooth delivery. Especially as they are complaining about a construction project that is nearing completion. What a waste of breath.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I know that it already exists. I think that I worded my post badly. What I'm saying is that instead of complaining about the Davis Drive Rapidway, they should be campaigning to support the stretch from Mulock to Davis in any way possible that will accelerate it's construction and ensure smooth delivery. Especially as they are complaining about a construction project that is nearing completion. What a waste of breath.

Ah, yeah.
We've spent so long not-building transit in this region people have real delusions about what it entails. I used to have to cross Sheppard every day to get to work, back when they were building that line. Contrary to what Doug Ford says, I assure you that street was rather torn up; it was hellish, for several years. And now it's great. That's how things work.

For my money, Highway 7 looks great and given the better atmosphere on Davis, I'm sure it will be great soon. The mall and regional HQ provide some good anchors for fixing that stretch of Yonge (there's some godawful strip mall architecture there) so, yes, hopefully it happens sooner rather than later and people will accept that it's short term pain for long term gain.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The part that Newmarket needs next (you could say "need") is yonge up to green lane, that stretch the retail hub for northern york regional n and is really busy.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

The part that Newmarket needs next (you could say "need") is yonge up to green lane, that stretch the retail hub for northern york regional n and is really busy.

Yeah....but it's a big box "retail hub." It's not like the Mulock-Davis stretch which really has potential for intensification (not least because it's designated as an urban growth centre in Places to Grow). Up at Green Lane you can still see farms. Maybe in the fullness of time but I think that dogleg they're doing now is the real key for Newmarket.

 

[doady]

With YRT ridership declining in 2014 compared to 2013, it makes me wonder if all this opposition to the Rapidways is a bad thing. Busway on Highway 7 in operation for a year now and ridership is declining! But to be fair, ridership declined in 2013 as well, so the busway is probably not to blame, but it definitely hasn't stopped the bleeding.

Either way, it doesn't seem like busways should be their priority right now. There are more serious issues that need addressing. YRT fails to providing a basic service people can use, at a reasonable price, and they already think about BRT? I've said before, ever since the introduction of VIVA, it's all been downhill for YRT, and these busways are not going to change that. VIVA is not a bad idea maybe, I think they introduced it too soon. And these busways are awesome but they are also too soon maybe.

Ridership loss two years in a row now, in a region that is rapidly growing. Think about that.

 

[taal]

Was there actually a loss in 2013 ? I don't think so !?

 

[doady]

Was there actually a loss in 2013 ? I don't think so !?

If you look at year end totals, the ridership increased in 2013 because of the strike in 2012. But if you compare a month in 2013 to the same month in 2012, and exclude the months with strike and free service, it was mostly declines 2013 vs. 2012. Compare April-Dec 2012 to April-Dec 2013, the ridership changed by -0.6% in 2013 (I just checked and calculated).

Ridership in 2014 so far is -2.2% compared to 2013.

 

[smallspy]

Ridership loss two years in a row now, in a region that is rapidly growing. Think about that.

If you take YRT, you'll realize that there really isn't much to think about. The reasons are right in front of you.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[doady]

If you take YRT, you'll realize that there really isn't much to think about. The reasons are right in front of you.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

So someone who takes the bus in these snazzy, brand new busways in York Region don't need to think about the current ridership decline? If you say so.