YRT/Viva Construction Thread (Rapidways, Terminals)

[Electrify]

She said the area around stations for reduced speeds is so great that they end up going 20km/h right through, at least where the stops are closest west of the 404.

Would explain why the last time I was on it the 1 bus beat us hands down, in rush hour mixed traffic!

 

[Rainforest]

She said the area around stations for reduced speeds is so great that they end up going 20km/h right through, at least where the stops are closest west of the 404.

Would explain why the last time I was on it the 1 bus beat us hands down, in rush hour mixed traffic!

I wonder if this kind of problem exists on any other North American BRT line with a similar design (in-median lanes and close stop spacing)?

I guess the issue is not applicable to other designs. Ottawa Transitway has either dedicated corridors with large stations, or curb lanes through the center. Don Mills bus lanes and Dufferin North BRT lanes are at the curb, hence the buses run at the speed of general traffic.

 

[Electrify]

What about St. Clair and Spadina? Also remember these stations also have enclosed barriers protecting part of the waiting area from the roadway.

 

[Rainforest]

What about St. Clair and Spadina? Also remember these stations also have enclosed barriers protecting part of the waiting area from the roadway.

I would think that for a vehicle running on rails, the risk to hit a person waiting at the stop is much lower because the vehicle cannot accidentally shift 10 or 20 cm.

Besides, both Spadina and St Clair streetcars are quite slow due to very frequent stop spacing; the effect of slow-orders, even if they existed, would be masked by the physical inability to accelerate much on such a short interval.

 

[smallspy]

Besides, both Spadina and St Clair streetcars are quite slow due to very frequent stop spacing; the effect of slow-orders, even if they existed, would be masked by the physical inability to accelerate much on such a short interval.

Except that the vehicles are able to achieve well above 20km/h between stops, despite the relative closeness of the stops, on both Spadina and the Rapidway.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Electrify]

Well I gave the rapidway a spin during this afternoon rush hour, and am happy to report that despite my previous trip, the 20km/h limit is seeming to be treated with the same seriousness as the 100km/h limit on major highways. I recorded a video from Chalmers to Town Centre Blvd, but will wait for the topic to die down before I post it (no need to get region officials on an enforcement blitz or anything). The video is about 12 minutes in length and starts just as the bus is approaching Chalmers, coming to an average speed of over 25km/h!

EDIT: According to Google Maps, the trip is supposed to take 9 minutes, for an average speed of 33.33km/h. However it was raining, which may have factored into this delay.

 

[jaycola]

With just 2 candidates running for Ward 5 council seat in Thornhill (Vaughan), I had a look at both candidates web pages and key platform issues.
See their pages here www.joshmartow.ca/ , www.shefman.ca

The contrasts on their positions regarding the Viva BRT coming through Thornhill down Bathurst and across Centre Street are quite striking.

Josh Martow, son of MPP Gila Martow, the former president of the Ratepayer's Group leading the opposition to the planned BRT route, continues where his mother left off in his vehement opposition to the planned route and the intensification and urbanization of this, the densest residential area in all of Vaughan.
Josh, a 22 year old, has as his tag phrase "a fresh voice" which seems ironic since his attitudes regarding transit and development are of the past.

Alan Shefman, the incumbent, comes across as progressive, forward thinking transit advocate and urbanist in comparison.

A quick excerpt from their web pages...

Josh Martow:On development in the area and Transit Expansion

High-rise condos are being built extremely quickly within Ward 5. As the GTA population grows, we do need to accommodate more residents, however, it is imperative we ensure that we do not grow too quickly. City council is pushing too much of Vaughan’s population growth into this side of the 400. Appropriate transit solutions need to be found before we can accommodate a massive influx of new residents. How can we do this?

Diverting the Rapidway from Highway 7 on to Bathurst Street and Centre Street will tack on an estimated extra $100M to the already-pricey project. This process will require an estimated four years of construction on these already-congested roads. Our current Ward 5 Councillor is a staunch supporter of this project, as he believes that Thornhill residents should use public transit for their everyday errands. Making left turns into many of our local businesses will no longer be possible after the middle two lanes of our roads are ripped out and replaced with Viva-bus-only lanes with barriers on either side. Left turns will be prohibited, U-turn lights will be added, and pedestrians will have two sections of road to cross, with a road island halfway through. Our suburban area is not fit for this type of system. The only way to reduce traffic by taking cars off the road is to provide rapid transit that residents want. Viva ridership is exceptionally low. Dedicating two lanes exclusively for these buses will constrict traffic drastically.

Contrast that with the words of Alan Shefman on Transit and Development:

As I think you can understand from what I wrote to you earlier, I am a passionate advocate for the development of rapid transit in our City and throughout the GTA. If there is one truth it is that transit has no municipal boundaries. All you want as a user is to get to your destination quickly, efficiently and with reasonable cost.

I don't understand the opponents of the Rapidway. I can't begin to understand why anyone would oppose building rapid transit that passes through your neighbourhood (great for housing values!), goes by one of the largest regional commercial centres (The Promenade) and is adjacent to the largest high density development (Thornhill Town Centre) in York Region. Oh, I almost forgot. Eventually the Rapidway will allow residents living in the area to get to two subway lines (Yonge Street when it is built to Richmond Hill and Vaughan Metro Centre when it opens in a couple of years) in about ten minutes. It all sounds pretty good to me. And besides, in building the Rapidway on Centre Street, we will receive the benefit of a very tired and unattractive streetscape being transformed to an attractive and walkable place.

While one is an obvious advocate of urbanizing Thornhill and the other an opponent, missing from the conversation by Martow is any discussion on how he intends to convince Metrolinx, YRT, Viva and York Region to alter this planned route. At this point, contracts have been awarded, funds spent on engineering, the environmental assessment was completed 8 years ago an the time-line for construction set. How, short of a court injunction does Martow intend to alter the route of the BRT? Where does he come up with the cost of this route's alignment being an additional $100M compared to Keeping it on Hwy 7 and does he believe there would be no cost to altering the route at this time?

I hope this election goes to the incumbent, Shefman, since if Martow wins, much time and energy will be lost in an attempt to stall what is the only sensible route for the Busway and intensification in the place where is is most warranted.

 

[reaperexpress]

With just 2 candidates running for Ward 5 council seat in Thornhill (Vaughan), I had a look at both candidates web pages and key platform issues.
See their pages here www.joshmartow.ca/ , www.shefman.ca

The contrasts on their positions regarding the Viva BRT coming through Thornhill down Bathurst and across Centre Street are quite striking.

Josh Martow, son of MPP Gila Martow, the former president of the Ratepayer's Group leading the opposition to the planned BRT route, continues where his mother left off in his vehement opposition to the planned route and the intensification and urbanization of this, the densest residential area in all of Vaughan.
Josh, a 22 year old, has as his tag phrase "a fresh voice" which seems ironic since his attitudes regarding transit and development are of the past.

Alan Shefman, the incumbent, comes across as progressive, forward thinking transit advocate and urbanist in comparison.

A quick excerpt from their web pages...

Josh Martow:On development in the area and Transit Expansion


Contrast that with the words of Alan Shefman on Transit and Development:


While one is an obvious advocate of urbanizing Thornhill and the other an opponent, missing from the conversation by Martow is any discussion on how he intends to convince Metrolinx, YRT, Viva and York Region to alter this planned route. At this point, contracts have been awarded, funds spent on engineering, the environmental assessment was completed 8 years ago an the time-line for construction set. How, short of a court injunction does Martow intend to alter the route of the BRT? Where does he come up with the cost of this route's alignment being an additional $100M compared to Keeping it on Hwy 7 and does he believe there would be no cost to altering the route at this time?

I hope this election goes to the incumbent, Shefman, since if Martow wins, much time and energy will be lost in an attempt to stall what is the only sensible route for the Busway and intensification in the place where is is most warranted.

I will be voting for Shefman, as I'm sure would any other Thornhillian on this forum, haha.

I'm not sold on the rapidway down Centre Street either, to be honest, but I really don't want to elect someone so incredibly regressive and counter-productive.

Centre Street is a perfectly fine route for Viva. But it's also perfectly fine as is is now, the bus just flies along from Promenade to Dufferin, even at rush hour. It seems wasteful to be building this infrastructure on Centre street for little to no effect, while a superblock to the south, there are ten times as many bus passengers stuck in traffic jams on Steeles. There are countless other arterials in the GTA which would see far bigger improvements and a similar level of development potential.

It's sickening how much Vaughan gets favoured politically, at the expense of common sense.

 

[BMO]

I will be voting for Shefman, as I'm sure would any other Thornhillian on this forum, haha.

I'm not sold on the rapidway down Centre Street either, to be honest, but I really don't want to elect someone so incredibly regressive and counter-productive.

Centre Street is a perfectly fine route for Viva. But it's also perfectly fine as is is now, the bus just flies along from Promenade to Dufferin, even at rush hour. It seems wasteful to be building this infrastructure on Centre street for little to no effect, while a superblock to the south, there are ten times as many bus passengers stuck in traffic jams on Steeles. There are countless other arterials in the GTA which would see far bigger improvements and a similar level of development potential.

It's sickening how much Vaughan gets favoured politically, at the expense of common sense.

Why do families feel like when one person gets into office everyone needs to get into office (re: the martows)?

I'm voting Sheffman as well, primarily because of the Viva stance.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

With just 2 candidates running for Ward 5 council seat in Thornhill (Vaughan), I had a look at both candidates web pages and key platform issues.
See their pages here www.joshmartow.ca/ , www.shefman.ca

The contrasts on their positions regarding the Viva BRT coming through Thornhill down Bathurst and across Centre Street are quite striking.

Josh Martow, son of MPP Gila Martow, the former president of the Ratepayer's Group leading the opposition to the planned BRT route, continues where his mother left off in his vehement opposition to the planned route and the intensification and urbanization of this, the densest residential area in all of Vaughan.
Josh, a 22 year old, has as his tag phrase "a fresh voice" which seems ironic since his attitudes regarding transit and development are of the past.
...

I hope this election goes to the incumbent, Shefman, since if Martow wins, much time and energy will be lost in an attempt to stall what is the only sensible route for the Busway and intensification in the place where is is most warranted.

If there's a substantial difference between Josh Martow and Toronto's Michael Ford, I can't find it.
Nothing in the bio on his own website suggests any interest in politics and leadership, except for who his mom is.
He has adapted her position on Centre Street, even though it's a done deal, but for the shovels, and even though it's a regional issue. The local councillor has nothing to do with it though, I suppose, he could rally Vaughan council to pass a motion asking the region to stop or whatever. Basically that ship has sailed and I am outright baffled why anyone would have a Martow sign on their lawn (and I've seen many).

On most of the other issues, his positions are effectively the same as Shefman's; an odd stance for an up-and-coming nobody to take. don't want to derail the thread but I must say it really gets my goat. If there's a reason to vote for the kid, I haven't seen it and this whole comparing Centre St to the "St Clair Disaster" etc. thing has really disheartened me. Luckily, it'll get done anyway.

(Centre Street is not enough to lose the ward for Shefman. If anything, there's been some [largely hysterical] concerns about a sewer project that will cost him votes, but I suspect he's safe. i look forward to someone explaining why Josh is even running....)

Centre Street is a perfectly fine route for Viva. But it's also perfectly fine as is is now, the bus just flies along from Promenade to Dufferin, even at rush hour. It seems wasteful to be building this infrastructure on Centre street for little to no effect, while a superblock to the south, there are ten times as many bus passengers stuck in traffic jams on Steeles. There are countless other arterials in the GTA which would see far bigger improvements and a similar level of development potential.

The devleopment potential on Centre is substantial. The rapidway is part of the reason the Liberty development is there already and half the street is lined by abandoned bungalows and other lots obviously being held for a time when density is justified. That eyesore of a No Frills plaza could be a HUGE, perfect-for-BRT scale intensification project. There may be other good roads but Centre Street is a street perfectly suited for a kick-in-the-pants on that stretch and the zoning is for it to be more of an urbanish corridor/gateway.

Josh's mom was arguing that the $ should be diverted from there to the more-crucial Yonge subway. I would agree that project is rather more important but it was disingenuous to suggest that maybe $100M from the bus lanes could be of any use in building a $3B-plus subway project. Mostly, merits aside, the objections are pure NIMBYism, from the McMansion dwellers a block off Centre.

 

[Rainforest]

Josh's mom was arguing that the $ should be diverted from there to the more-crucial Yonge subway. I would agree that project is rather more important but it was disingenuous to suggest that maybe $100M from the bus lanes could be of any use in building a $3B-plus subway project. Mostly, merits aside, the objections are pure NIMBYism, from the McMansion dwellers a block off Centre.

Agreed.

Moreover, I doubt that the saving amount will even reach $100M. They want to replace 4 km of BRT on Bathurst and Centre with 3 km of BRT on Hwy 7.

One extra kilometer of BRT shouldn't cost $100M, even if some landscaping costs for Centre and Bathurst are added.

 

[innsertnamehere]

the "BRT" on highway 7 is on the controlled access portion of the highway, meaning no bus lanes if it follows the same model as the other controlled access parts of highway 7.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I've had two calls today from the Martow campaign and his main issue is these bus lanes.

I hope it's not too much that SOMEONE from his campaign team has found this thread. If you're reading this, please explain to him that Vaughan council has NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE LANES. It is decided by YORK REGION COUNCIL so he should have run for regional councillor if he wanted to somehow convince 9 or 10 other regional councillors to suddenly stop a 5+-years-in-the-planning project, fully-funded by the province, in its tracks.

It made sense when his mom was running for MPP because a PC government could have pulled the funding, in theory. Practically, I doubt they would have had the political stones to piss off Bill Fisch and YR council but either way, that ship has long since sailed.

I find it grossly insulting local residents are getting called with this message and I've even seen a sign or two, houses nowhere near Centre with anti-bus lane signs. Lordy, he might as well be campaigning to increase sanctions against the state of Iran, for all the power his position might give him. The people of Thornhill won't know better but the idea that this useless kid could end up as councillor scares me more than a bit.

 

[innsertnamehere]

centre street is lined with the "no bus lanes!" signs.

 

[salsa]

Thornhill had become the Scarborough of York region, where irrational people put up a hissy-fit over some freaking transit lanes in the middle of the street.