Yonge Street Revitalization (Downtown Yonge BIA/City of Toronto)

[TheTigerMaster]

The weird thing is that in Toronto, I often see people walking on the sidewalks when streets are temporarily pedestrianized. I've often biked on the ActiveTO shared streets during the pandemic and have rarely seen anyone actually walking on the roadway. The notion that "streets are for cars and sidewalks are for walking" is very deeply ingrained here such that I wouldn't be surprised if no one walked in the roadway even if cars are "guests" in the space.

As others mentioned, its' because of the physical design. If you have a sidewalk curb, people are going to stick to the sidewalks. How else are they to know that they can walk on the streets? Get rid of the curb, and people will walk on the streets.

On the flip side, look at what happened on Queens Quay: There was no separation between the bike lane, tram tracks and "sidewalk", and as a result, pedestrians were walking in cycle and streetcar lanes.

 

[afransen]

The cycle track on QQ is a mess. There needs to be more obvious visual cues that it is not primarily pedestrian space. There is no indication that it is not safe to wander across it without looking.

 

[junctionist]

As others mentioned, its' because of the physical design. If you have a sidewalk curb, people are going to stick to the sidewalks. How else are they to know that they can walk on the streets? Get rid of the curb, and people will walk on the streets.

On the flip side, look at what happened on Queens Quay: There was no separation between the bike lane, tram tracks and "sidewalk", and as a result, pedestrians were walking in cycle and streetcar lanes.

Do you think we'll need signs on the street to explain it? On Market Street south of Front Street, they got rid of the raised curb, but it's still a normal street and there doesn't seem to be much confusion.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Do you think we'll need signs on the street to explain it? On Market Street south of Front Street, they got rid of the raised curb, but it's still a normal street and there doesn't seem to be much confusion.

I'd say if you need signs to explain the design of your street to pedestrians, you have a poorly designed street. The physical design of the street should dictate how the street is utilized.

I think Market Street works without signage because the bollards naturally delimit the boundary between pedestrian and vehicle space.

The bollards work well for Market Street, but it's precisely what we shouldn't do for Yonge Street. Those same bollards would indicate to pedestrians that the centre of the roadway was "car space". Liberal use of trees, planters and street furnitures immediately adjacent to the "vehicle lane" would encourage cars to slow down, without suggesting to pedestrians that they shouldn't travel in the centre of the roadway. Signage, road markings and perhaps even speed bumps could be used to further indicate to drivers that this is a slow space.

 

[W. K. Lis]

In Europe they use red coloured asphalt, not paint, for bicycle lanes.

Toronto (and Ontario) needs to follow more of the traffic calming in Europe.

 

[isaidso]

Wonderful that they're now looking to re-do the public realm on Yonge Street. My only criticism thus far is that they need higher end paving stones, planters, etc. This is our Main Street and they need to attempt the best design possible rather than one that they think is good enough. This below is what Brisbane built on their Main Street. It's a couple notches more luxurious than these early Yonge Street designs put forward. This is one time when Toronto needs to spend the money and get us something top shelf.

The benchmark should be to design something comparable or better than what Brisbane built. Falling short of this standard is NOT acceptable. The Brisbane pavers are much nicer than the small blocks I see in the Yonge renderings, These pavers are larger, smoother, have a richer colour, the pattern created breaks up the surface visually, and it even has a nice sheen to it. I was there earlier this year and it's beautifully done. It's not wet pavement. It actually looks like that. The pavers seamlessly transition into the stores. Even their marketing billboard infrastructure was nice. This is what you get when you spend the money and pay attention to the details.

Personally, I'd prefer a pedestrian only street on the entire length. Bikes can go on Bay, Church/Jarvis. I would support a wide pedestrian section in the middle so it can accommodate the Pride Parade and things of that sort. What's depicted below would work.

Queen Street, Brisbane

Guide to queen street mall

With over 500 specialty stores, Queen Street Mall offers a unique open air shopping experience. Here's your guide on where to shop and park in Brisbane City.

www.visitbrisbane.com.au

 

[CityStay]

Wonderful that they're now looking to re-do the public realm on Yonge Street. My only criticism thus far is that they need higher end paving stones, planters, etc. This is our Main Street and they need to attempt the best design possible rather than one that they think is good enough. This below is what Brisbane built on their Main Street. It's a couple notches more luxurious than these early Yonge Street designs put forward. This is one time when Toronto needs to spend the money and get us something top shelf.

The benchmark should be to design something comparable or better than what Brisbane built. Falling short of this standard is NOT acceptable. The Brisbane pavers are much nicer than the small blocks I see in the Yonge renderings, These pavers are larger, smoother, have a richer colour, the pattern created breaks up the surface visually, and it even has a nice sheen to it. I was there earlier this year and it's beautifully done. It's not wet pavement. It actually looks like that. The pavers seamlessly transition into the stores. Even their marketing billboard infrastructure was nice. This is what you get when you spend the money and pay attention to the details.

Personally, I'd prefer a pedestrian only street on the entire length. Bikes can go on Bay, Church/Jarvis. I would support a wide pedestrian section in the middle so it can accommodate the Pride Parade and things of that sort. What's depicted below would work.

Queen Street, Brisbane
View attachment 267937

Guide to queen street mall

With over 500 specialty stores, Queen Street Mall offers a unique open air shopping experience. Here's your guide on where to shop and park in Brisbane City.

www.visitbrisbane.com.au

Yonge Street is far too decrepit to ever look anything like that.
Not that the city would ever even attempt to go to such length to begin with.

 

[Northern Light]

Yonge Street is far too decrepit to ever look anything like that.
Not that the city would ever even attempt to go to such length to begin with.

Your endless hate for Toronto is really too much. Why not take it somewhere else?

 

[CityStay]

Your endless hate for Toronto is really too much. Why not take it somewhere else?

This thread consists of 71 pages of people saying "Yonge Street sucks" to one degree or another.
Get a grip!

 

[UrbanFervour]

This thread consists of 71 pages of people saying "Yonge Street sucks" to one degree or another.
Get a grip!

Als, you aren’t wrong... the City of Toronto has an abysmal track record with building and maintaining public spaces and park infrastructure. There will probably be pvc bollards dividing the unnecessary bike lanes from the roadway, scrawny unwatered trees, and pavers that city workers will inevitably spray paint and patch over with tar within a year of completion. It’s not Toronto the city but the City of Toronto that is the problem.

 

[smably]

This thread consists of 71 pages of people saying "Yonge Street sucks" to one degree or another.

Exactly why your posts contribute nothing to this discussion and nothing to this forum in general. It's all been said a thousand times before. Your posting history is the same tedious whining about Toronto, repeated ad nauseam. Maybe I'm being harsh, but I have to ask, what are you even doing here if you hate this city so much?

Anyway, to keep this from veering totally off topic, the changes proposed for Yonge are quite good -- certainly not perfect, but better than the status quo by leaps and bounds. And unlike the idle complainers, I hope to engage with the process to push for high quality finishes and great urban design.

 

[afransen]

Anyway, to keep this from veering totally off topic, the changes proposed for Yonge are quite good -- certainly not perfect, but better than the status quo by leaps and bounds. And unlike the idle complainers, I hope to engage with the process to push for high quality finishes and great urban design.

Agreed. I think it will be a good starting point to further pedestrianize other streets where it makes sense. Seeing what's possible helps...

 

[ssiguy2]

This very much looks like a "flex street" and Canada's largest one was just created in nearby London.

It took 4 blocks of Dundas Street downtown and transformed it into a flex street. Cars are still allowed on the route but the street can be shut down at a moments notice for any reason creating a real sense of place on the new Dundas Place, They widened the sidewalks, got rid of parking, beautified the street, got rid of the the grade separation between the sidewalks and the street so it is just one flat street easy for pedestrian events, and very importantly got rid of all the buses on Dundas.

The later was a hell of a lot hard that it would be on Yonge. The Yonge bus probably runs every 10 minutes while Dundas {along with Richmond} were the 2 busiest corridors in the city, The buses went down Dundas literally every minute. They moved the routes over the nearby Queen and King meaning shutting down the street won't cause any transit disruptions. It is part of London's downtown section of it's BRT system.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Wonderful that they're now looking to re-do the public realm on Yonge Street. My only criticism thus far is that they need higher end paving stones, planters, etc. This is our Main Street and they need to attempt the best design possible rather than one that they think is good enough. This below is what Brisbane built on their Main Street. It's a couple notches more luxurious than these early Yonge Street designs put forward. This is one time when Toronto needs to spend the money and get us something top shelf.

Btw, these early renders are just illustrating the physical layout of the street; they're not detailing any specific design elements. Detailed design will begin in 2021, according to the website.

I'd encourage everyone here to participate in the public consultation process to provide feedback, otherwise we're all just blowing into the wind. There's a questionnaire posted, and a virtual public meeting on the 16th, where you can provide feedback.

yongeTOmorrow Consultation

How did we get here? Find out how the Recommended Design Concept was developed on the Background page. Need assistance? While we aim to provide fully accessible content, there is no text alternative available for some of the content on this site. If you require alternate formats or need...

www.toronto.ca

 

[ssiguy2]

That Yonge proposal looks like a conviluted mess.

One thing they did in London's Dundas Place is that they DIDN'T include any bike lanes. That is a great thing because pedestrian zones and bikes don't mix. They are accidents waiting to happen. Also they are diametrically opposed in terms of what they are offering.

Street bike lanes are there to ensure bikes can safely travel thru an area and that is exactly what London {nor should Toronto on Yonge} doesn't want. They want Dundas to be a place where you are going and NOT a place you have to go thru. The city mitigated this by having separate bike lanes on nearby King & Queen are just a block from Dundas and are one-way streets. They are also going to home to the new BRT.

The City wisely decided that Dundas should not be a transportation route but rather a meeting place.