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Waterfront Transit Reset Phase 1 Study

How should Toronto connect the East and West arms of the planned waterfront transit with downtown?

  • Expand the existing Union loop

    Votes: 134 72.0%
  • Build a Western terminus

    Votes: 8 4.3%
  • Route service along Queen's Quay with pedestrian/cycle/bus connection to Union

    Votes: 22 11.8%
  • Connect using existing Queen's Quay/Union Loop and via King Street

    Votes: 8 4.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 14 7.5%

  • Total voters
    186

DSC

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If the current tracks are already off street to the east of Cherry Street, think they'll just drill/dig/construction a streetcar only underpass under the railway. All there is only a parking lots and empty weed fields.
I have seen a 'plan' for a streetcar tunnel to be punched through the rail berm to east of the current bridge. I think this was part of the Metrolinx documents about adding tracks to the rail line and the widening of all the bridges between Yonge and Parliament. The current 'signal box' on north side of the berm and east of the bridge will (soon) be obsolete and it will be moved a bit further east. When it is not there the new streetcar tunnel COULD go through - but I doubt it will happen for many years.
 

max

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Replace them with presto faregates, it's not that complicated.
Can those faregates even operate reliably outdoors? I expect they are putting in an enclosed space because they cannot and that the existing mechanical turnstiles didn't need them due to a higher tolerance of severe environmental conditions.
 

W. K. Lis

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Can those faregates even operate reliably outdoors? I expect they are putting in an enclosed space because they cannot and that the existing mechanical turnstiles didn't need them due to a higher tolerance of severe environmental conditions.
Proof-of-payment doesn't really need faregates. Could be handled as the PRESTO machines are handled at GO Stations. By the time the eastern section of the Waterfront LRT is finished, it'll be all PRESTO or cash. Note the camera in the below photo.

From link.
 
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Streety McCarface

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Can those faregates even operate reliably outdoors? I expect they are putting in an enclosed space because they cannot and that the existing mechanical turnstiles didn't need them due to a higher tolerance of severe environmental conditions.
Ottawa seems to get by just fine with minimal sheltering; similar to the sheltering at Dufferin Gate Loop:
image.jpg

Screen Shot 2020-06-14 at 3.52.43 PM.png
 

drum118

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If you review this proposal for 11 Bay St, you will see the new location of QQE portal west of Yonge and a few other things that hasn't shown up for this area yet.

They are moving ahead on covering up part of the Yonge Slip area and expecting it will be fill in.

Based on the timeline for 11 Bay St, the LRT work will need to be happening at the same time or sooner
 
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AlvinofDiaspar

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If you review this proposal for 11 Bay St, you will see the new location of QQE portal west of Yonge and a few other things that hasn't shown up for this area yet.

They are moving ahead on covering up part of the Yonge Slip area and expecting it will be fill in.

Based on the timeline for 11 Bay St, the LRT work will need to be happening at the same time or sooner
For reference:

1594145652217.png


AoD
 

drum118

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What is that timeline? Has it been communicated?
All I know that the QQE is to be built by 2030. As for 11 Bay, take it with a grain of salt. It states construction starts in 2022 and completed 2025 for 11 Bay St

You need to built the area at Yonge Slip first to remove the buses and taxis currently park on QQW before making major road changes. let alone the portal.
 

drum118

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Because it been over 10 years since the EA was done and to deal with changes, a new TPAP is to take place with the first public meeting slated for around October and early 2021. 30% design and cost to be done by April 2021

TTC is responsible for the T connection as well the tunnel and Loop. Waterfront/Toronto for the rest
 

DSC

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Because it been over 10 years since the EA was done and to deal with changes, a new TPAP is to take place with the first public meeting slated for around October and early 2021. 30% design and cost to be done by April 2021

TTC is responsible for the T connection as well the tunnel and Loop. Waterfront/Toronto for the rest
The Board Report on this is at: http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commiss...st_LRT_Union_Station_and_Queens_Quay_Link.pdf It was adopted at the June 17 meeting.

The Appendix is interesting:

ttc.jpg
 

drum118

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If 30% design and cost is done by April 21, its possible that 100% design by 2022 and go out for tender on the surface section. Construction could be started on the surface section in 2023/24 starting with the Yonge Slip and east of Yonge St That work could be done by 2025/26.

Wouldn't be surprise to see TTC do the T connection around 2025/26 to create an east west line and close the Tunnel and Union loop until it completed since this is where the major cost for the extension is. Could be open by 2030 and within the city 10 year capital cost budget.

The unknown timeline is for 2B. The new Cherry Street is to be open by 2025. Seen rendering what the QQ may look like between Cherry St and Parliament St, but no formal plan work for that area.
 

drum118

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The Portal study is to be complete within the next 2 months, but the prefer location is west of Yonge. There is about $40-$50 million saving doing this.

A study is to look at taking Phase 2 all the way to Cherry St Loop than stopping at Parliament St as per the original EA plan.

Since there is a 35 Meter corridor for the east extension, various changes will be made that will be different from the west side. Martin Goodman Trail will be 4.2 meter wide and 5 cm lower than either side of it. Sidewalks wider.

Due to a problem with Microsoft Teams Meeting, I couldn't comment on various concerns by various members of the committee, as well ask my own question and correct various comments.

It seems TTC gone off the rail, as they don't see an full east-west line now considering they wanted back in the days of the Cherry St and QQW EA. Great mistake not to do it.

It been said the full TPAP will be completed a year from now, and then go to council to get funds to take design to 100% and look for funds to start construction. Phase 1 is to take 4 years to build and too long to have QQW out of service. A good example why phasing is needed for Phase 1, with the Portal and T connection being at the top. This way Phase 2 can be built first and then close QQW down to built the T connection. This will allow QQW out of service for about 6 months and become an east-west line servicing both side of Young St until Union Loop is done.

Phase 2 is to take about 3 years to build. What was not noted, how long to do Phase 2A by itself or part of Phase 2.

Almost 50% of the existing Yonge Slip will disappear to build the new entrance to the hotel and the docks. New bus and taxi layover areas.

I will be writing my views, comments and recommendation over the next few days and send them to Toronto Team and Waterfront Team since Microsoft Teams Meeting would not allow me to speak. I want my info pass onto everyone and will post my info here as well.

Comments and feed back welcome



 

CapitalSeven

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What would be the service plan if they extend as far as Distillery Loop? I've lost track. It could be an extension of the current 504 Branch: Dufferin Loop Dundas West to Union via Cherry.
 
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drum118

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What would be the service plan if they extend as far as Distillery Loop? I've lost track. It could be an extension of the current 504 Branch: Dufferin Loop to Union via Cherry.
TTC has looked at have service from various points servicing Union and Exhibition before and during this original EA. Broadview Station, Neville Park Loop, Leslie Barns from the east end only. This should still remain for peak events and limit service. Service was look at from Broadview to the Portland for the Cherry St line.

As for the 504, you could do a loop service once the extension to Dufferin Loop is done in both direction. Not every car would use the QQ tracks since there is more service needed on King than QQ


If I'm seeing this correctly, the foot of Yonge is going to become a parking lot for buses? :rolleyes:
Yep, but prefer to see a deck over the water so fish still can use the area. Then what is another few 100 feet going to do to the shore line when the water edge is already about 1500 feet from the original shores of Toronto.
 
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